An Irish crime reporter was killed for being too curious by drug bosses. The subsequent Garda investigation was so intense and far reaching that it's estimated the the drug operations lost huge money over the coming years -- the Irish state implemented news laws and even the creation of 'Criminal Assets Bureau' came from Veronicas death.
I would be harmed by robberies on the street or in the home.
You live in a society where young people become addicts and rob and harm the people they love and then die prematurely.
Let's not make grand sweeping statements about societies which you clearly don't have a huge practical experience with (or if you do, of which you are grandly exaggerating certain problem spots in order to make your point seem more emotionally critical).
NL has a drug problem, and has had a drug problem since the 70's or so. It's been worse than it is today, but even today school age children are approached on a regular basis by pushers, plenty of them end up as addicts and quite a few of them do end up on the wrong side of the law to the point that we have special programs to deal with this.
None of our communities is immune from this, whether you live in Northern Groningen, Zeeland, Limburg, Gelderland or the Randstad, the problems are legion and so is the secondary fall out.
What you are describing has happened in the 70's and 80's. Education, special programs and (semi-)legalising weed (soft drugs) had though most kids how to avoid addiction. Since then alcohol abuse is a far bigger problem amongst kids [source: https://www.trimbos.nl/kennis/cijfers/alcohol-drugs-roken-sc...]
Sure, drugs is being sold to kids. For recreational (weekend) use and not full-filling some addiction. So does that make it a drug-problem? From my point of view most kids know exactly what they are doing. Plus I haven't met a single dealer in NL which needed to resort to 'pushing drugs to kids' to sell his stash. So maybe your sons were asked to buy drugs, which is a very different situation.
Thé most troublesome problem, involving drugs in NL is people slipping GHB into other people's drinks, to abuse them afterwards.
Other friends and their kids: multiple passes, dealers are either their school buddies trying to make some money on the side so they can buy fancy clothing or phones, or outsiders who are in it in a more professional capacity.
NL has a drug problem, like it or not it doesn't really matter, it's there and if we pretend it isn't there it is certainly not going to be resolved.
The biggest issue discussed in Groningen is lachgas ( nitrous oxide ). And alcohol.
The drug problems from the 70's and 80's were mostly heroine, not seen as a problem anymore as most of the users have died out.
Lachgas is a problem, but a very minor one in comparison to harder drugs, alcohol has been a problem for a lot longer than either harder drugs or soft drugs. Unfortunately Groningen is not an exception to any of this.
As for sources, here is one:
https://www.harendekrant.nl/nieuws/drugsdealer-learen-lees-m...
and I'm sure you'll find a reason to disqualify it but there is far more than this single article.
What should I google to find the 'far more' ?
If I google 'drugs school groningen', I come up empty.
If I google 'dealer school groningen', I come up with one article from 2017, minor incident, and best of all : that was my school.
So were can I find far more?
Those 'minor incidents' are two a penny. Even at the better schools kids regularly use drugs. If you don't know about it or don't want to know about it then maybe stop extrapolating from your limited experience to the rest of NL. And good luck when/if you have kids in school, watch out from round about the age of 11.
If the allegations are not supported by evidence then it's natural that anyone finds faults.
That, and your ad hominem, says everything about your accusations.
> Those 'minor incidents' are two a penny. Even at the better schools kids regularly use drugs.
If that is supposed to be any close to the truth then how do you explain the complete lack of evidence or even anecdotal accounts?
I mean, can you actually support any of your claims about the alleged torrent of cases that is everywhere but also nowhere to be seen?
And plenty of them elsewhere, but all in dutch.
Google terms "site:.nl drugsgebruik middelbare scholen nederland" "site:.nl drugsgebruik lagere scholen nederland".
Enjoy. And if a school in NL claims that they don't have a drug issue: find out if they really don't or if they are simply closing their eyes because it's too uncomfortable to discuss.
There is no evidence that schools in nl do not have a drug problem, but there is plenty of evidence that they do.
For instance, an article about Arnhem:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2322862-steeds-meer-blowende-jongeren...
No, I really can't. So far you've been unable and unwilling to do so. I see a lot of posts from you with unsubstantiated allegations followed up by desperate ad hominems.
And when you are pressed about it, you hand-waive, deflect, and redirect.
I repeat: if there were a tenth of the cases you alleged then you would have zero problems presenting a single convincing example.
But you even failed at presenting any relevant case at all.
Please read the link you just provided. It states the exact opposite of what you're claiming. That was the best example you could come up with after so many ad hominem and after being repeatedly pressed to support your unsubstantiated allegations. Your dozen of scaremongering posts in this discussion boil down to that, the absolute best example you manage to put together. And it contradicts your claims.
You should really reflect on what you're doing, because if you have a problem with reality not backing up your firmly held beliefs to the point you get so emotional about that delta then some contemplation is in order.
BTW, the whole article is about cannabis. Is this what you are worked up about?
The numbers sound about the same for my cohort, and our teachers were well aware, also who we were and it was discussed openly in class. And we felt safe enough to be open about it as well.
You seem particular puritan. One needs to remember the Dutch voted for gedoogbeleid ( laissez faire policy ) and it has been in place since the 80s.
That is just a baseless assumption on your part : I lived for extended periods in other cities.
I know some parents with children here, the subject has never come up. I don't recognize your characterization of the problem at all.
Maybe you should stop projecting your views on a city you apparently know little about?
The drug trade in Groningen is alive and well, you can take that to the bank. And if you still don't believe it then maybe have a chat with some LE and see where that takes you.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2326997-pillen-laten-rondgaan-in-een-...
The US average seems to be 5, worse cities can get to 20? 40?
The problem exists but let's not take it out of proportion
sounds like the description of a government
Quote from three years ago, after Mocro Maffia set up shop in Belgium. Belgium is a couple years behind The Netherlands. So there's no doubt about it, things are even worse in The Netherlands. Belgium is now in the throw-grenades-at-homes phase but no public executions yet. Matter of time...
I believe OP's point is that an exceptionally rare assassination of a random person does not compare to frequent robberies of people close to you.
The latter comes packaged with the former.
Meanwhile Dutch police doesn't investigate any of this "petty" crime. Instead they boast that the occupation of prisons is in all time low, and that they are rented prison space to other countries. Wonder, if anything will change, considering the prevailing "pragmatic" - "it doesn't affect me if my wallet isn't affected" attitude in the Dutch society.
The added benefit is that if you are using a playground you no longer have to be overly concerned about stepping into needles.
The junkies problem of the 70s and 80s died out, that generation is largely dead and with the changing culture and the closure of most kraakpanden ( squatting places ) no new junkies were added. The junkies died out.
https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/item/aantal-vergismoorden-sti...
and that's before we get into those cases where people were slaughtered in front of their spouses and children (and who sometimes were slaughtered right along with them).
Massive shoot outs with automatic weapons on the highways, in the cities and on one occasion on a small beach near Amsterdam.
If it doesn't include you then you are lucky. But it could be you, tomorrow.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_criminele_liquidatie...
For perspective, the number of people who die from lightning strikes is about 2 per year.
And most of those progressive voters live in the areas which are affected ( Amsterdam, Randstad in general ).
And if they did not vote 'progressive', they voted VVD ( neoliberal, keep slashing funding until it is bare functional : our police ).
Ok, I think you've just disqualified yourself from further discussion. I'm not going to cross the HN guidelines to tell you off.
What is the point of your comment? Why comment at all?
Giving off some heavy sealion vibes here
They really aren’t a thing.
Certainly not in the Netherlands. Even in the US, it’s an exceptionally rare cause of death of no significance at all.
Also, in my previous apartment (Amsterdam), I’ve heard a gang execution (shots were fired) in the middle of the night.
I also know people who knows the DJ who was executed inside his car in the presence pf his family.
There’s a problem in the Netherlands.
I’m not saying that drug related violence is not a thing. It accounts for most of the gun related murders in the US, for example. Probably the same is the Netherlands.
However, innocent bystanders being at risk is not a thing.
They really are in the UK.
> cause of death of no significance at all
Of course, someone's needless death is of no significance. You have probably never heard of John Donne, but:
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
And maybe look up "county lines", which is corrupting children, and spreading the drug trade, and violence, to even small towns.
I am not against the use of drugs, and have used some at one point or another myself. But it is delusional to think that so long as drug use is criminalised, criminal gangs will not use extreme violence.
Also, this is 2021.
I do agree with you on this part of your original reply, though:
> But it is delusional to think that so long as drug use is criminalised, criminal gangs will not use extreme violence.
It's definitely the case that criminalization of drug use is one of the root causes of a lot of violent crime in the UK. I imagine we'd have other social issues to contend with if we followed the path of making many drugs legal, but we'd certainly have less crime related to their trafficking and distribution.
The UK has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in the world, so there is no reason to put 'low' in scare quotes in this context.
I'm not sure how representative pandemic stats would be, so it made sense to look at 2019. But I don't think you can seriously claim that drive by shootings have massively increased during the pandemic. Or at least, if you do claim this, it would be good to see a source.
Bollocks.
> 32 lives are insignificant
Nobody is saying this, anywhere.
More importantly, how many of those were innocent bystanders?
The point is not that people’s lives don’t matter, the point is that being caught in a drive by shooting is an absurd thing to be afraid of. You are more likely to get hit by lightening, or slip and hit your head in the shower.