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Comment by tehjoker | Hacker News Reader

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Cuba experiences shortages because the economy is in shambles. Australia is far from its trading partners, yet it remains rich. Distance from rich trading partners is not the problem here.

The US hijacks vessels of goods going to Cuba.

I don't understand why you think Cuba's shortages have nothing to do with the US threatening anyone who trades with Cuba.

> the US threatening anyone who trades with Cuba

That's a lie. Cuba trades with China, Spain, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and the Netherlands.

> The US hijacks vessels of goods going to Cuba.

Nonsense. [citation needed]

>"The US hijacks vessels of goods going to Cuba."

The USA is blockading Cuba? This is news to me! There are regular flights from Canada to Cuba via US airspace, and many Americans take the trip!

Isn't it still subject to sanctions?

Cuba is closer to rich trading partners (like the EU) than the Australia is to its rich trading partners (like the USA). Each also has poorer trading partners nearby (SE Asian countries and Central American countries respectively).

Distance is kind of irrelvant. What is more relevant are the sanctions, maybe?

https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2020/10/unite...

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...

"WARNING: TOUR PACKAGES FOR SCUBA DIVING, BICYCLING, HUNTING, FISHING, HIKING OR OTHER TOURIST TRAVEL IN CUBA ARE ILLEGAL"

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/126/cubatrav.pdf (from the previous page)

Those are U.S. sanctions. They do not apply to the E.U. or Canada.

Yes, they do. Since 2019 you are legally liable if you trade with anyone in Cuban that is linked to goods seized in the revolution.

The Canadian government and the EU have programs to mitigate that liability but it's still there.

> Yes, they do.

No, they don't. Canada, Spain, Netherlands, Germany, and Italy are among Cuba's top trade partners.

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub

And that comes with significant pain to major companies many of which don't bother. The reason why all of these coubtries are in Canada or the EU is because those are the two jurisdiction where the government has laws to compel you to trade with Cuba and insure you against US secondary sanctions.

> And that comes with significant pain to major companies many of which don't bother.

Source?

> The reason why all of these coubtries are in Canada or the EU is

But they're not all in Canada or the EU. Brazil, Mexico, China, and Russia are also among its top trade partners.

> those are the two jurisdiction where the government has laws to compel you to trade with Cuba

That's just normal.

It's illegal anywhere to profit or sell stolen goods. Why not simply return the property to it's owners?

No, it's not normal. If you live in America all the land you may own and all its proceeds was stolen, obtained fraudulously, or obtained under duress. This is the case in almost every country on earth. You're not required to give it back because for better or for worse governments are considered sovereign, except for Cuba when that's convenient to US geopolitical goals.

https://spectatorworld.com/myth-stolen-country-america-new-w...

wow this article is amazingly stupid.

where to begin?

> historians have been unable to find any evidence that Columbus was genocidal, or had any particular ill-will towards the Native Americans that he encountered.

Even the Spanish thought Columbus was genocidal enough to arrested, chained, and shipped back to Spain for judgement.

Not according to historians [0]. The definition of genocide is [1]:

genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

From [0]:

Witnesses testified that his brief government of Hispaniola was marked by routine cruelty not only to the native Taínos but also to Spaniards who defied or mocked him.

Columbus wanted living and multiplying subjects to tax and govern. He was not interested in depopulating newly acquired territories.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-chr...

[1] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

As noted above, no one has ever successfully filed and collected under that statute.

Also, since 2019? What about the previous 60 years?

The act was signed in 1996 and prosecution was suspended before any suit was over. Lawsuit have started in 2019 which are still ongoing.

This law has had a chilling effect ever since it was signed. It's sélective enforcement makes it worse, not better, as it allows the USG to privately threaten entities whenever most convenient.

It's not even the only way that secondary sanctions can be exacted. The US can also effect force on foreign corporations by threatening to sanction their US suppliers.

What happens to a company that wants to do business with Cuba, and the United States. I'm not 100% certain, but I have a sneaking suspicion that in order to get access to the sweet little money piggies that is US consumers, you gotta swear not to do business with dirty terrorists and commies.

Maybe that's not how it works, but boy I'd be shocked.

Many airlines fly to both Cuba and the USA.

Only the US. Cuba trades with China, Spain, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and the Netherlands.

can you trade stuff when you are subject to an embargo?

Canada, Mexico, and the EU are all major trading partners for Cuba.

Seems to me goods from Canada would be more expensive that getting them from the country 80 miles away.

I completely agree that access to the US market would be extremely convenient for Cuba, but my point, and the reason for the comparison to Australia is to show that the USA is not what has caused Cuba's dismal state.

US has spent the last 50 years trying to knock over Cuba's government and economy. Come on man!

The USA has not been trying very hard since JFK was president. Each successive president has done less and less, and Cuba’s leadership has actively sabotaged every attempt at normalization.

No, they have not. Normalization actually did happen until Trump took office, and meanwhile Cuba has allowed for greater economic and political freedom.

Ocean shipping is dirt cheap. Look at all the stuff we import from China.

Then why is it cheaper go get stuff from China than from the US? Proximity of manufactue is virtually irrelevant for most goods.

Proximity is everything in trade goods. Things from China are cheaper than US made due to labor costs not shipping.

Among many issues with this comment, you've misstated the Monroe Doctrine. Starting in 1823, the USA let it be known that foreign powers shouldn't interfere in North or South America.

Why would we support a revolution that has only served to make their leaders rich while making the people suffer? same happened with Venezuela with the direct intervention of the Cuban regime. It needs to end and I hope to live enough to see it end both in Cuba and my home country.

> Support the Cuban Revolution.

Why should anyone support a Communist regime that over a million Cubans have risked (and sometimes lost) their lives trying to escape?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

> If Cuba is missing material goods, it is because the US government has been strangling them for decades

They are free to trade with anyone else. There's 180+ countries that have absolutely no sanctions against them.

> They have produced their own vaccine candidate

That, according to the state media, the only legal media on the island, works. Wouldn't trust it too much...

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