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Comment by elnatro | Hacker News Reader

The Spanish Civil war is a contentious topic en Spain today as the agreements reached by the politicians in the Democratic Transition has been called invalid by the left- leaning parties.

Instead of fighting for better conditions of workers and citizens in general, left-leaning parties have been worried about pushing propaganda.

Take in account that Franco died more than 45 years ago, and most of the governments since them (and the current one) have been left-leaning (PSOE mostly).

And now, in Spain, the COVID-19 crisis has shown the inefficiency of the government, people are paying more than ever for electricity consumption (in a heat wave), the unemployment is the highest in the last years, and the price of buying or renting a home is high as ever. Thus, the government wants to charge us for the use of highways (already paid by taxes), and reduce the pay for the retirees.

Ideological propaganda (left-leaning mostly) is very much alive in Spain.

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> and most of the governments since them (and the current one) have been left-leaning (PSOE mostly).

False, they have been mostly alternating.

> And now, in Spain, the COVID-19 crisis has shown the inefficiency of the government

We are vaccinating way more per day than other EU countries, having surpassed in total vaccionations the USA and Germany (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations).

> the unemployment is the highest in the last years

False, it's actually lowest than in the previous economical crisis (it peaked in 2013) and now there's COVID going on (https://www.epdata.es/datos/paro-espana-hoy-epa-ine/10/espan...).

> and the price of buying or renting a home is high as ever

Spain is one of the few EU countries where house prices have went only slightly up this year, compared to the notable increases in others, which are more than double the net increase (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...).

> Ideological propaganda (left-leaning mostly) is very much alive in Spain.

To complain about propaganda, you're sharing a fair bunch yourself.

The government downplayed the COVID-19 pandemic and allowed marches, concerts and meeting of big groups of people (the VOX political party meeting for example). The government also seized the healthcare competences of the autonomous communities, only to be revealed that they were incompetent, and make old people die in assisted living facilities.

There is an all time high unemployment in young people…

You can’t take the prices of the last year when many people started working from home, and leaving big cities, and hence rent has decreased.

Left leaning propaganda is pretty much alive in Spain, where you can’t criticize the left without being labeled as “facha” (as this case).

> The government also seized the healthcare competences of the autonomous communities, only to be revealed that they were incompetent, and make old people die in assisted living facilities.

Eh, there have been compaints from both left and right that the competences left to the autonomous communities have done more harm than good. To say they have not had a lot of competences is misleading, they do have a lot more decision power than in other countries. Spain is de facto very decentralized.

> There is an all time high unemployment in young people…

Indeed, but unemployment overall is not the highest in the last years. You need to be specific when talking about data.

> You can’t take the prices of the last year when many people started working from home, and leaving big cities, and hence rent has decreased.

Yet in most of other EU countries it has went up sharply. We're not doing as bad as you think.

> Left leaning propaganda is pretty much alive in Spain, where you can’t criticize the left without being labeled as “facha” (as this case).

Honestly I agree with you here, but still, you can't say misleading statements that contradict the data. If we want to see real improvement the first step is looking at data and being honest about it.

Having countries with more unemployment, worse vaccination rates, or higher house prices doesn't make the situation "good".

You are cherry picking statistics to say that Spain is better than other countries. Being better off than Afghanistan doesn't make you a great country.

The thing is that the self-called Spanish left has disappointed its voters and blamed every problem on Franco and male sexism.

>False, they have been mostly alternating.

PP is left leaning. They haven't had a conservative or libertarian ideology in decades, perhaps never. So basically most of our democracy has been a parade of left leaning governments, especially the last 25 years.

If PP looks "left leaning" to you, it's pretty clear where you stand.

If this government that has increased the cost of life seems to you to be left-leaning, it’s clear where you stand.

In the... Right? :P

Still there are hundreds of corpses buried in unknown places all over Spain and right wing parties don't want them unearthed, identified and given to the families, also continuous homages to the dictator from the right wing parties claiming that dictatorship was a time of order and peace.

What’s stopped the Zapatero administration (2004-2011) or current prime minister Sánchez (since 2018) to make excavations and recover the remains? Nothing. They keep alive this topic because it’s convenient to get some more votes and polarize the society.

No government (not even Franco regime) has excavated, looking for corpses. In fact, while looking for “Republican” bodies, some times even have found “Nationalist” corpses [1]

I refuse to be in one faction of a war that occurred 80 years ago because some old-fashioned politician says so.

[1] https://elpais.com/ccaa/2014/07/18/valencia/1405708991_42440...

Well, I’m focusing in actual important things, like the continuous decrease of purchasing power of Spaniards.

The war was more than 80 years ago, the Franco regime ended 46 years ago, and there was an amnesty/treaty with all political parties to work for the country forward.

Now, about the monuments/homages: There are also monuments for the Che Guevara, La pasionaria, Carrillo (remember Paracuellos war crimes), etc. would these monuments be banned also?

Largo Caballero made some controversial statements another opting for Revolution instead of democracy:

> “La clase obrera debe adueñarse del poder político, convencida de que la democracia es incompatible con el socialismo, y como el que tiene el poder no ha de entregarlo voluntariamente, por eso hay que ir a la Revolución“

Should we ban all parties that have him as an important figure?

No, Franco regime symbols have already been removed, his tomb removed, and the democracy has rooted in Spain for almost half a century, why don’t left-leaning parties solve actual people problems?

There are statues, monuments and streets with the names of falangists and fascists all around the country and the right wing parties are against removing their names, in fact recently the president of the PP , a supposedly right wing democratic party, defended in the parliament the dictatorship as a good time with law and order. Also the people that forget their past is condemned to repeat it and right now in Spain the PP is governing in part of Spain with a extreme right wing party and I'm thinking too in important things like Spain not converting in a neo nazi state like Hungary , whih the Spanish right wing parties have just given support in front of the European union voting next to to the extreme right wing parties.

> right wing parties don't want them unearthed, identified and given to the families

Source for this?

Voting against it repeatedly in congress and senate counts as a source?

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