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Comment by mynameishere | Hacker News Reader

"They've worked hard for it, and it's what their parents have focused their lives on. But the problem is that the country can't provide the lifestyle they feel they deserve. Only a few will get it."

Ah, such economic ignorance! What is this "country" that "can't provide" if it isn't the people themselves who are to be provided for. People both take and create jobs.

the national college entrance exam—China's magnified version of the SAT

The SAT is (or was) a covert IQ test. If the Chinese test is the same, then these kids are wasting the vast portion of their energies.

At one top Beijing kindergarten, students must know pi to 100 digits by age 3.

Why would you send your kids to a "top" school in order to destroy them intellectually? Who in the world thinks that such insane tasks could be valuable?

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I don't know why this is being upmodded. These kids are NOT wasting their energy. In China you can't drop out and move to the valley and start a company with your computer savvy.

The system in China is simple: To even have a CHANCE of successful, professional, middle class (by Chinese standards) life, you MUST get a university degree. To get a university degree, you MUST score in the top Nth percentile of the college entrance exam.

Students get sent to top schools because top schools produce results on this exam, as absurd as the actual exam may be. You have to consider that despite the fact that for the country as a whole these things may not be ideal, for any individual student you would be stupid not to put everything you can towards that test.

And if you don't get a degree, you end up as a laborer of some sort. And in China these people work their asses off and are poorer than a homeless jobless American. It's a different world.

The country has so many people there is far more competition for jobs and resources, and because of the government the current rules are the only way up through the system. Obviously there is a problem with the system, but it should be abundantly clear that it would not be in your best interests to rebel against it before getting through it--you would only hurt yourself turning down the best schools and the entrance exam, and you would not be in any position to effect any changes.

"... in China you can't drop out and move to the valley and start a company with your computer savvy. The system in China is simple: To even have a CHANCE of successful, professional, middle class (by Chinese standards) life, you MUST get a university degree. To get a university degree, you MUST score in the top Nth percentile of the college entrance exam. ..."

Of course the system can be hacked, bent, manipulated by family connections within the party. The sad thing is by manipulating the "system" China is widening the gap between those who have the theory but pitifully short of application knowledge (University graduates) and those who do things but lack the requisite knowledge (everyone else).

Ironically, I have heard quite a lot of people say that many Chinese tertiary courses are not actually very difficult.

Sounds kind of like Harvard here... you have to kill yourself getting there, but once you're in grade inflation is your friend.

> At one top Beijing kindergarten, students must know pi to 100 digits by age 3.

I really have a hard time believing that's even true to begin with, but if it is what a completely pointless exercise.

Think back to how much of your western education was spent on completely pointless exercises...

That's certainly true, but at the same time I rarely spent much time at home on schoolwork either.

It wouldn't be that hard - 3 year olds commonly memorize entire songs and rhymes they hear.

You just put the numbers to music or make a rhyme - how much you want to bet there is a little industry making CD's for this?

But it is totally pointless. Learning to memorize stuff is useful, but learning to memorize a single thing isn't.

Its definitely a culture thing. Its best shown by the Chinese parent's desire for their kids to play the piano.

Do you think Chinese parents make their kids learn piano because they themselves were inspired by Mozart and Chopin? No, they learn piano because it is something that the kid can show off (to relatives, colleges, etc).

Those kids learn PI much in the same way.

Are you referring to Chinese immigrants? Because if China is anything like India, kids would actually be discouraged to play the piano, as it would prove to be a "distraction from their studies."

   'Ah, such economic ignorance! What is this "country" that "can't provide" if it isn't the people themselves who are to be provided for. People both take and create jobs.'

There are constraints. For one, economies cannot grow faster then a certain rate (they're pushing it already) without fallout.

For another, this is a largely controlled economy.

It seems to me that what China needs is more entrepreneurial spirit, not more rote memorization.

>The SAT is (or was) a covert IQ test.

Is there something wrong with that? What else are you supposed to test?

I think his point is that IQ is not increased by killing yourself studying.

I increased 100 points on my SAT by studying. There's some degree you can learn how they ask questions and such.

In any case, I'm fairly sure that the Chinese test is not much like the SAT, and does indeed test for a bunch of memorized knowledge. Every part of the Chinese educational system has a huge emphasis on memorized knowledge.

I think the relevant point is not whether you can improve your test score by studying (you can). It's whether or not this is a good thing to be expending your energy on (from the public point of view).

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