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Comment by AnimalMuppet | Hacker News Reader

That seems to me a very uncharitable take on the TERF position. For example, approximately 1/4 of women have been raped at some time. It's not very hard to see that such women could have a problem with someone who's biologically male in the women's room - a serious, traumatic problem.

You can say that and still be sympathetic to the plight of trans people.

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Sorry, I don't buy this concept that hordes of (or any, for that matter) predatory trans women are queuing up for the chance to prowl round changing rooms. Do you, really?

Say you're right. What stops them sneaking in right now? It's not like there are mandatory ID checks at the entrance.

This is what I don't understand. How many examples are there of the horrible ills these bathroom bills will "solve"? Trans people exist today, they use bathrooms, where are the problems?

Virtually none. In fact trans people are vastly more likely to be victims of the sorts of things that the people pushing those policies argue those bills are meant to prevent.

Use the bathroom you are comfortable using.

Gendered bathrooms are a concrete expression of the fact that it is gender that is the major fault line through our society. The fact we need them is a damming indictment on our society (on men probably)

> predatory trans women

How about predatory men pretending to be trans-women?

Even if we ignore the fact this is a nonsense non-issue that isn't solved by the "solution" of forcing people into bathrooms by biological sex rather than gender identity, it's still nonsense.

You've just created a world where predatory men pretend to be trans men, who are now legally required to use women's bathrooms.

At least most trans women are trying to express in a feminine way (disregarding the issues with women—cis and trans—being discriminated against for not being “feminine enough” by someone's standard), with this "solution", you've just normalised people actively trying to be as masculine as possible going into women's bathrooms. Congrats.

(Of course, predation in bathrooms is illegal, why on earth would someone who is willing to break that law be stopped by another one saying they aren't meant to be there? It's literally the same nonsense argument used by homophobes to argue we shouldn't allow gay people into those spaces.)

If you're going to hypothesize, doesn't it obligate you to substantiate the claim?

Are predatory men pretending to be transwomen a problem on any statistically noticeable level?

I'm not hypothesizing anything. I'm pointing out that "someone who's biologically male in the women's room" doesn't have to mean "predatory trans-woman" but could be "predatory man pretending to be trans".

And I'm asking you, when you are just-pointing-out, if it's actually happening in a way that is statistically recognizable and thus a contribution to the discourse in question, or if it's not.

Can we please return to some semblance of reality?

The reality is predatory men already invade women's restrooms for perverted reasons. You don't think they would not be emboldened by being able to shame people for being transphobic to increase their chances of getting away with whatever they are doing?

That's a strawman.

Without proof to the contrary the assumption should be that the trans population has a similar proportion of rapists as any other does.

Since its been well established that essentially all rape no matter who is raping who goes under reported it is completely rational for women to be just as fearful as they would with any other stranger.

The question isn't whether women should assume that a transperson is less likely to rape them than any other stranger. That's not what "bathroom bills" are about.

The question is whether bathroom bills forcing transpeople who wish to not break the law (potential rapists are obviously not part of this set...) into men's bathrooms, and a surrounding climate of generalised hostility towards anyone with any remotely masculine element of their physique or style in women's bathrooms actually meaningfully reduces the risk of rape, or just makes the environment more intimidating for everyone.

It's literally in response to the posit that trans women would rape strangers in changing rooms. I've tried to make it as far from a strawman as possible by arguing against even a single occurrence of that happening.

Cis women can perpetuate rape. Should we ban them from changing rooms too? How far through the looking glass does this have to go?!

> That's a strawman.

It is a dessicated vegetative hominoid surely?

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