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Comment by zaarn | Hacker News Reader

What about intersex females or women with androgen sensitivity? They are XX but might still get "the advantage of growing up with testosterone". Or women who have testosterone insensitivity and an XY chromosome pair (ie, are in all factors but their sex chromosomes female)?

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There will always be edge cases, and they should be addressed on an individual basis. Changing the rules that affect 99% of the athletes to benefit the 1% edge cases doesn't make sense.

Why not find a set of rules that works for 100% of people instead of leaving out the 1% for no other reason than "we have to continue with the rules we established as tradition".

Because there are no such rules. It's a competition. Only a few people can win, and any rules are biased.

If you rolled back the clock and tried again, Michael Phelps would never be a champion weightlifter, and the best weightlifter would never be a champion swimmer.

There are in fact rules.

Currently for olympic distance running at 400 meters or further, a female must present with a certain maximum level of testosterone. This rule was specifically made to exclude an intersex female-presenting runner who excelled. Due to medical complications, she cannot take medication to surpress her testosterone levels on a long term basis.

So yes, such rules exist.

And a boxer who for medical reasons can not reduce their weight to a lower weight category just competes in the higher weight category. It shouldn't matter why you exceed a certain threshold, so long as the thresholds are consistent and relevant you should compete in your category.

This what-about mentality that fragments the population into increasingly small groups while expecting everyone else to adhere needs a course correction.

I don't want to fragment, I want these people to be recognized as what they identify; women. Even if they don't have the right chromosomes, there is atleast a dozen reasons someone might still have grown up as female or identifies female.

Do you feel the same way about race?

What does this have to do with race?

> I want these people to be recognized as what they identify; women. Even if they don't have the right chromosomes, there is atleast a dozen reasons someone might still have grown up as female or identifies female.

Replace gender with race. Do you feel the same way about race?

Well, I didn't know that race is determined by your chromosomes. TIL I guess. And I don't see how someone would identify as black if they aren't, it's a melatin level in the skin.

The issues about race have less to do with the issues about transgender people, and more with their struggles faced by fault of modern society, in addition to the struggles one would face as transgender and/or female, which can intersect quite badly.

I'm honestly astounded that HN apparently doesn't have any idea about intersectional discourse in the slightest, should be pretty obvious stuff.

You do realize there are descendants of black people with fair skin that look almost European otherwise but identify with their ancestors kept down under segregation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Butterfield

Yes, I know about edge cases, but I think it's fair to count that as a cultural association with their ancestors over them being PoC.

> Well, I didn't know that race is determined by your chromosomes. TIL I guess.

Is that sarcasm? Do you know what chromosomes are?

> And I don't see how someone would identify as black if they aren't

By simply claiming they do. Is that not the criterion you're using for gender?

"I don't see how someone would identify as female if they aren't."

>By simply claiming they do. Is that not the criterion you're using for gender?

And you still fail to see the difference between gender and sex and how that is different from culture and skin color. Congratulations.

>Is that sarcasm? Do you know what chromosomes are?

I didn't skip Biology 101.

So your position is that a person is female simply by virtue of claiming that they "identify as" female. Is a person black simply by virtue of claiming that they "identify as" black?

> I didn't skip Biology 101.

Looks like you did. Chromosomes carry the genome.

I am aware Chromosomes carry the genome, but leading the question is not quite fair as well. Since sex and gender were topics, it was well evident that I was talking about Chromosomal differences between humans, NOT gene-level differences.

It looks like you skipped out on Biology 101, otherwise the difference would be clear in context and upon my elaboration.

Good day.

> I was talking about Chromosomal differences between humans, NOT gene-level differences.

Since the former includes the latter, your excuse makes zero sense. It sounds like a convoluted attempt to obfuscate the fact that you thought "chromosomes" was synonymous with "allosomes".

> It looks like you skipped out on Biology 101

How so? This is a weird projection. You're the one who clearly didn't know what chromosomes are.

Finally, you still haven't answered the question: Is a person black simply by virtue of claiming that they "identify as" black?

I fully believe trans women are women, but I'm genuinely curious as to what the feminist response to stuff like these competitions should be when it's clear that trans women have a distinct and irrerperable advantage over biological women.

What potential problems would there be from having a biological women competition, and a trans women competition? Genuinely curious as to your answer and I am asking this in good faith

And what is the response that people who undergo female hormone treatments will have a distinct disadvantage over men who've not done that? Should they have to continue in a field they have this disadvantage in?

2 divisions:

XX only division.

Unlimited division for everyone else.

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