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Comment by Barrin92 | Hacker News Reader

I mean the entire business model of the company seems to be to depart rich people from their money in obscene ways, so that move does not seem unexpected.

I generally do not understand the thought process of buying a tablet glued to a treadmill for three thousand dollars. That's like what, a decade of gym membership

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These are competing with fitness studios like Soul Cycle- which charges $40+ a class after shoe rental and water. The bike is more like $2000 at least for the standard bike, not $3000.

My wife bought one in November 2019, and both joined the "century club" (100 rides) by the middle of 2020 and she takes the Yoga classes as well and I have done a few strength classes- its not just about the bike. We had never previously had a gym membership, though I would use the one in my previous apartment building, and my wife was into both Yoga classes and Soul Cycle.

I hate group fitness and cycle studios, and am currently on a 65+ week streak on Peloton. The value is there for me, and even outside the pandemic, my wife hasn't stepped foot in a cycle studio since it was delivered.

>I hate group fitness and cycle studios, and am currently on a 65+ week streak on Peloton. The value is there for me,

I understand the value proposition of an internet-connected "virtual class" for motivation, competitive pacing, social gaming, etc but my limited research showed that one can get these benefits with just the Peloton app[1] (the software) without buying the hardware (Peloton branded bike/treadmill).

The big disadvantage with the whole Peloton hardware+software integrated package is them changing the Terms of Service on the customer at any time to raise prices. (E.g. this thread's topic of abruptly removing treadmill's "Just Run" $0 cost option.)

Is the DIY option with your own bike/treadmill with an iPad running the Peloton app too awkward that it makes the integrated Peloton the better value? Or are buyers simply not aware of the options?

[1] https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id792750948

I think its about the build quality, the service, the instructors, and the integration. I mean maybe you can get a separate bike with a resistance knob that matches peloton's numbers, and track your workouts with an Apple watch, Fitbit, or something similar, then rig up a tablet to follow along with the instructor, but that's a lot of hassle and while maybe you already have the tablet and fitness tracker, if you bought them specifically you aren't too far off from the price of a bike. I am not sure if you could get the competitive aspect of getting a real time update on the leaderboard as well- which while isn't strictly necessary, it does motivate me at least a bit, and watching it keeps me from getting bored.

I don't know how widely spread this is, but even before the pandemic my company had a gym benefit and it can be applied to Peloton. I didn't know that going in though, I just had a discussion with a coworker after we got it where they told me that.

And yeah, when I was in my younger years when I had more time than money, I might have cobbled together some solution like you are suggesting, but these days, I can pay for the nicely integrated solution that I don't have to debug or worry about.

Using your own bike with the Peloton class never appealed to me as you don't get your power numbers, so there is no competing with others in the room.

I hear the Wahoo Kikr is great for cyclists: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-trainers/kickr/buy

I have the kickr and it is the best thing for a competitive cyclist IMO. As someone who regularly rides outside though, I hate riding indoors, even on a good setup. I know some people who don't mind or love it, but to me it's really anti-fun and makes me dread the workout instead of look forward to it like an outdoor ride.

I use the Peloton app with my Keiser M3i. I bought the Keiser because I believe it to be a better product. I also didn't want to be bound to both Peloton hardware and software. I had the Keiser for years prior to subscribing to Peloton. I just made up my own workouts. Ultimately, it's easier to just pick a class and do whatever the instructor tells me to. Overall, I'm happy with the decision. I can be a competitive person so I miss the leaderboard stuff at times but not enough to regret my choice.

In practice, it took me a few workouts to translate the resistant callouts from the Peloton to the Keiser. Also, some instructors are better than others about repeatedly calling out cadence and resistance. You can get lost in the workout if the instructor doesn't call them out enough.

In terms of just using the app and not the bike: The bike hardware is very good. Peloton claims to only break even on it and I can believe that - it’s an extremely sturdy bike.

It's not 2 grand good. It's similar to bikes that cost $1K or less. There is no way they're only breaking even on the bikes unless their supply chain is complete garbage.

Can you share a sub-1k bike that is just as well built?

The article you are responding to : Peloton's $3k treadmill now comes with surprise 'subscription fee'

You: "The bike is more like $2000 at least for the standard bike, not $3000."

Did you not read that this is not about the bike, but the treadmill?

The Soul Cycle (and copycats) business model boggles my mind.

I can even understand people paying $200+/month for an Equinox gym. At least it's unlimited use.

But paying $35+ for a single one hour spinning class?

For my wife, it was partly a social thing- her friends did it, and she is in sales and this actually became a popular thing to take clients to. She had expensed over $10K in classes her peak year. She became friends with some of the people that worked at her favored studio, and even some of the instructors (which appears to have been not unique to my wife but cultivated by corporate culture: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22195549/soulcycle-decline-reo... It was a Thing, and in NYC once something is a Thing, it becomes unstoppable and takes on a life of its own.

Its not even a full hour, the standard class is 45 minutes IIRC.

But paying $35+ for a single one hour spinning class?

Pricing like this happens when there are enough people that can afford it without thinking about it, and they don't want to be surrounded by people who can not afford it.

It's a smaller scale version of a town with very high taxes, and no extra benefits for those taxes.

I did crossfit for about 8 years and then switched to Orange Theory when my Xfit gym started to become overrun with bruhs, chads, and qanonfitters. I quit OT after the COVID, but was going to because it was become increasingly loud and hyper-cheery. Which is a bummer, because I really like working out with a group of people way more than alone, especially when we are all like: ok, we gotta finish this even if it sucks. I don't see how this can be captured digitally, but maybe I am too old (which I think is become a real thing, the digital gap as GenX starts to not understand the new relationship with tech... not saying you are young just hypothesizing...)

The treadmill costs $2,495 and the upgraded version is $4,295.

I generally agree. But owners would argue that a $3k treadmill that's used consistently is a much better value than a $500 treadmill that's used only its first month of ownership.

I'd add their are things that are much more expensive people spend money on that are much less likely to result in happiness. Buying a fast-depreciating Mercedes or BMW for example.

It's just important that people figure out what makes them happy, and what they're buying.

I have no issue spending $60k+ on a car because I like to drive and a nice car makes me happy every time I get in. There is no way I'd buy a Peloton though: I absolutely hate all fitness classes. I'd rather spend $3k on dumb equipment than $1k on "smart" equipment with classes.

It targets a similar customer to that obscenely expensive juice squeezer thing.

I'm noticing more and more a trend for people to spend seemingly large amounts of money on completely pointless things. Out of curiosity I checked how much people are spending on custom number plates for their cars in the UK. They are regularly going for tens of thousands of pounds. For a few numbers that other people get to see on their cars.

My theory is, despite the nominal amounts being very high, the opportunity cost to the buyers is very low, but it's not because they are "rich". There is such a huge gulf between being "well off" and being "rich" that it's quite easy for many people to save up a spare ten thousand and just not have anything better to spend it on. To make serious life changes, like a new house, you need hundreds of thousands to millions. Suddenly that ten thousand is a drop in the ocean. Faced with not a chance of ever reaching "rich", people remain "well off" and spend these paradoxically large but tiny amounts of money on pointless things.

I'm shocked at the number of non-rich friends who have bought or seriously considered a Peloton. I know buying a good exercise bike, monitor (which they may already have), and a subscription to some cycling class service or box set isnt a sexy solution but damn is it so much cheaper.

I honestly cant believe how strong the marketing of Peloton is. It's the iPhone of exercise equipment.

> It's the iPhone of exercise equipment.

It really is.

> I know buying a good exercise bike, monitor (which they may already have), and a subscription to some cycling class service or box set isnt a sexy solution but damn is it so much cheaper.

circa 2007 you could say a similar thing about the iPhone

> seems to be to depart rich people from their money in obscene ways

This nails it. The startup tech boom has a large contingent of, "how can we take a cheap device, cloud-it-up, add some design, and sell it at 20x the price to the bougie?" I literally stay awake at night trying to think of something I can modify and sell to rich people.

And by "rich" people, I mean people in the 10% and above income brackets, or people that will go into debt to have the latest gadget.

Examples:

- Car-rooftop tents

- Fancy blenders

- Super-expensive coolers

- Deluxe earphones

- Deluxe vacuum cleaners

- Deluxe portable fans

- Deluxe juice machines

- Deluxe "man kits" (yes, its a thing: https://www.mancrates.com/, https://manlymanco.com)

...

I am racking my brains to come up with the next fancy thing...

> I generally do not understand the thought process of buying a tablet glued to a treadmill for three thousand dollars. That's like what, a decade of gym membership

Do you not understand why they would rather buy a treadmill than train at the gym, or why they don't buy a cheaper treadmill?

I don't understand why they wouldn't buy a different expensive treadmill if they don't want the classes

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