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Comment by sschueller | Hacker News Reader

Generally I define a 3rd world country as a place that has a lot of inequality, corruption across the board, poor to no worker protection, failing and antiquated infrastructure, no free access to health care, high incarceration rate, persecution of journalists, a large working poor population with no ability to move up the social ladder, etc.

Which one of those does the US not have?

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The US has worker protections and social mobility, so you're flat-out wrong on two of your points. And actually the US has free access to health care via a variety of programs, it's just not universal, but I'll concede that's being pedantic.

Every country is going to have inequality, corruption, antiquated infrastructure, and persecution of journalists, so those are meaningless unless you provide some sort of comparison point.

"High" incarceration is at least attempting to articulate a comparison but only because I actually know the numbers there.

Comparing all of these points against Western Europe, the US is objectively behind. There's your point of comparison. Western Europe has far more expansive worker protections (just look at "right-to-work" states, you can get fired for any reason whatsoever), far more encompassing free healthcare (not just for the poor and older individuals, Medicare and Medicaid is what you're referring to I presume right? There are no other programs for free healthcare in the US), far freer press (according to the World Press Freedom Index, the US is 44th, most Western European states are higher), infrastructure is not crumbling in Western Europe in the same way it is in the US, far lower inequality (this is obvious, check any inequality index), less corruption, on what point exactly of these is the US better than Western Europe?

Being behind first world countries in a few cherry picked regards doesn’t make one a third world country.

a) how are these regards cherry-picked? b) it doesn't no, you are right. However the "third world country with a gucci belt" phrase is intentionally tongue-in-cheek and used to call attention to the fact that the US is behind other first-world countries in many different important ways, which it is. Personally I consider healthcare, worker rights, and infrastructure pretty key issues of extremely high importance, and I'm not sure how it's possible to see it otherwise.

They are important, but ignoring every contrary indicator (per capita GDP, life expectancy, quality of life, etc) in order to exaggerate the extent to which the US lags other nations is the very definition of cherry picking. The US is squarely a first-world country even if it lags various countries other first world countries in certain regards. No doubt this “third world country” business is hyperbole for many people who invoke it (although I think there are many who invoke it who sincerely believe it or just have no moral scruples whatsoever), I’m just saying such rhetoric is unhelpful at best and probably divisive and misleading.

Out of those three examples you gave, Western Europe still wins on 2/3 (higher life expectancy, higher quality of life). Granted the second is subjective somewhat, but I believe most would agree. The first is objectively lower in the US compared to Western Europe, you can check the statistics. Per capita GDP is only high in the US due to massive wealth inequality and a ridiculous concentration of billionaires. It's not "ignoring every contrary indicator", it's that most of the indicators that are used to support the idea that the US is "better" (e.g. per capita GDP) are fundamentally flawed in different ways, and don't amount to a proper comparison of the quality of life.

For the third time now, being behind (some parts of) Europe doesn’t make a country “third world”. Also, I agree that GDP is imperfect—no one is claiming any indicator is perfect. However, the median US adult also has more wealth than the median European adult, and that figure isn’t skewed by billionaires. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_...

The US does not have much corruption. It is present, obviously, but you probably don't realize what corruption is like in "real" 3rd world countries.

About the infrastructure, the one in the US is comparable to that of most rich countries. If you cherry-pick, sure you are going to find something.

Health care in the US is problematic but I think the best indicator of quality is life expectancy, and the US is high tier.

And you think journalists are persecuted? The US is one of the most free country in that regard, more than Europe and much more than in Asia. In "real" 3rd world countries, they get killed, tortured, and all sorts of fun things if they disagree with the local ruler.

Climbing the social ladder is far from impossible in the US. It is hard, but it is hard everywhere, the ones on top of the ladder never want to let go, but at least, in the US, there is no rule officially preventing it like castes in India.

Worker protection could be better but it is no nonexistent either. At least, there are contracts that mean something, safety standards, etc...

Incarceration rate is not necessarily the sign of a third world country. In the worst places, there are no prisons to keep criminals locked in, and they are out to get you.

This is absolutely correct. I strongly suspect the people who say things about the US being a third world country have no experience in second world countries, much less third world.

Those are all relative and obviously cherry picked. If you need to cherry pick and exaggerate wildly it’s not a very convincing argument IMO.

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