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Comment by dharmab | Hacker News Reader

Similarly in the motorcycle world, dual sport and adventure models originally designed for on road/off road mix are now quite popular as commuter machines. Their long suspension makes them quite comfortable over potholes, cracks, curbs and generally poor road surfaces. And many models are narrow enough to filter between lanes with ease.

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I see those dual sports all the time and I don't see the attraction other than image. They're less agile on-road which is where they spend their time. At least they're not as silly as the trend of sticking knobbly tyres on road bikes for that "scrambler" look.

If anything the opposite trend makes more sense, the motard / supermotard style where a competent off-road bike is retrofitted with road tyres and suspension tuning. They look like an absolute blast.

Dual sports can usually withstand a few drops with nothing more than new levers, parts are cheap, and maintenance is usually easier than street bikes. I almost always recommend a small dual sport as a first bike. If you get a used one for a decent price you can almost always sell it for what you paid for it even if it takes a couple of tumbles, and you can see if you like off-road too.

>At least they're not as silly as the trend of sticking knobbly tyres on road bikes for that "scrambler" look.

FWIW I've got a mid-weight streetfighter that I'd love to put some 50/50 tires and a skid plate on. But I already take it into the dirt so it would be an improvement.

And yes, supermotos might be the ultimate motorcycle.

Would like to jump on this comment to agree with you.

A buddy of mine dropped his s1000rr coming out of a right turn at a traffic light and was up for around $8k in damages... He was only going ~10mph. I envy those who can fix their bikes after dropping them for $20 when they didn't even have frame sliders etc.

Yeah, I ride a semi-naked and as my first 'big bike' (I've had it nearly a decade, though) it's been dropped a couple of times, with only a couple of scuffs on the crankcase to show for it. Definitely a big consideration!

This is only true if you keep the 21” front when and then only if you are trying to keep up with skilled riders (disclaimer I’m not the average rider). Had a dual sport that I made into a super moto with ultra stick rubber. Would blow away a GSXR/Ducati/R1/R6 on HWY 9 all the windy sections. Those bikes could out accelerate me on straights but they all held me up in corners.

I had an absolute blast on my Yamaha XT660X, which was sort of a motard version of a dual-sport. Small and light for an adventure bike, but a bit too large and heavy to be a true supermoto.

660cc single-cylinder that you could just beat on all day without breaking the law too much, plus super long suspension travel and fat sticky road tires made for a bike that just ate up speed bumps and rough roads. I pulled some gnarly wheelies over bumps and cresting hills, so much fun.

And it was obnoxiously orange, I loved that bike. It was a shame someone else decided that he liked it more and cut though a massive Kryptonite chain to get it.

I would argue that "designed for [off] road mix" is pretty charitable. A 500-pound dirt bike with a comfortable seating position wins the tough-aesthetics competition, but off road performance is meager at best. I built decent off-road skills on a DL1000, but the weight was always such a liability as to make it impracticable. I moved to a smaller and lighter bike and have more fun, but 99% of people I met in Arizona are happy with their big ADV bikes— with zero interest in going off road.

I think the most interesting take-away is that there is a segment of people who value being given an excuse for something rugged— I heard lots of "I just like the peace-of-mind that I could go anywhere if I needed to" whether they believe themselves or not.

Well there's shades of grey between paved tarmac and proper off road.

Not a motorcyclists but I assume these adventure/dual sport bikes perform much better over say unsealed roads, and are at least workable on fire roads.

Fire roads are easy mode on an ADV bike. They can do double track quite well too. They start to struggle in mud, sand and single track.

I'd presume that pure street motorcycles would fair pretty badly on even double track.

So yeah, ADV would seem to be useful for something other than wanting to look rugged.

This is exactly right. The contrast that piqued my interest was something like knobby tires on a heavy bike that spent its life on the street. Turns out people value comfort (here, seating position and long suspension travel), but those things only seem to sell with a rugged aesthetic. Balancing these needs is something of a Hard Problem, so it's interesting to watch this play out throughout the industry.

Totally, in London i regularly encounter cobbled streets, my big tyre gravel bike is perfect.

Even on a street only trip I'd prefer an adventure bike to most street bikes, the rugged factor shouldn't be discounted when you're 1000+ miles away from home and outside of cell signal.

You'd be surprised. I've taken my 500-pound dirt bike (KTM 990A) to the end of Baja (all dirt), across the Trans America Trail, and to Alaska and back. Did most of the hard splits on LA-Barstow-to-Vegas a few years ago, and endless dirt riding in the Sierras and Nevada. And I'm by no means the best rider I know.

Single track is hard work but there's nothing quite like ripping open the throttle on a 100hp dirt bike and throwing up a tornado of sand. I owned an XR250R for a few years and just found it boring.

To be fair the VStrom 1000 the commentor was riding is fairly heavy and street oriented. A KTM, Tenere or smaller GS blows it out of the water off road.

I've ridden with some others on big KTMs who struggle a lot more than the guys on the smaller bikes. I think once a certain weight threshold is crossed there's no argument that the bike is appropriately called an "off-road" bike, no matter how knobby the tires. Conversely, aesthetics are always in play. Especially for the GS guys at Starbucks ;)

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