Hacker News Reader

Comment by joshuahughes | Hacker News Reader

Sounds uncomfortably like coercion...

The government specialises in coercion. Pay your taxes or you'll be fined. Pay your fines or we'll throw you in a cage.

It's time to fight guys from that country or we'll throw you in a cage. Obey our rules or we'll throw you in a cage.

I hope if something good comes up out of covid, it will be people realising that and vote for limiting government's power.

That outcome seems unlikely in the US in the near term, given how neatly people's opinions on COVID restrictions lined up with their existing politics. The lesson that seems to be sticking is that it feels great to have the full weight of public institutions on your side of the culture war, so win at all costs.

It is coercion. People have been coerced at every step of this crisis, by the threat of police violence, by the threat of reputation or job loss, by the the threat of fines and more.

Hopefully, like we see with the wuhan lab theory suppression, as time goes on, a lot of what people suffered will come to light, and be contrasted by the benefit of the elite and political class during all this.

I agree 100% - whatever reaction posts like yours get, it's important to realize that a lot of people think this way, quite possibly a majority if you could talk to them on their own, despite efforts to pretend anyone against whatever government / corporate orthodoxy is pushing this week is some kind of conspiracy nut

Many many people agree with both of you. Don’t feel alone.

Thanks! That's why I posted a reply instead of just upvoting, I think its important to show people that they're not alone, and what they are thinking is normal.

There are a tremendous amount of people who have just been fed the same compounding stuff on YouTube or wherever based on their previous clicks. There's a difference between considering the nature of X with a way to validate or think about it, and simply having watched a netflix documentary while high on acid. The latter of which become conspiracy nuts, and they're really draining to listen to, probably as much as big L liberals droning on about whatever pet topic they have

I think I agree with what you're saying. The more recent challenge though is that calling someone a conspiracy theorist got a lot of traction for shutting down discussions, so it gets applied very liberally to any point of view that the mainstream disagrees with as a lazy way of avoiding debate.

That's true, and I don't necessarily think it's a good thing to shut down debate, but I don't think it's also perfectly valid to take whatever action you want to avoid argumentation if you choose. I don't want to go do something I enjoy, but feel less inclined to do so on the basis I might get into an argument with some jackass. Not everything requires me to debate in my daily life, and ignoring people I don't care to engage with changes nothing about the outcomes of the subject matter, most of the time.

That's the nature of the internet and decentralized information sources.

The vast majority of people are consuming propaganda or crazy shit (MSM and conspiracy theories) but don't know how to filter the info to find a narrative that most accurately represents reality.

Because of this, the mainstream media will ALWAYS be able to dismiss strawman arguments and label dissidents as conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theorists will also ALWAYS be able to poke holes in the propaganda and spin convincing alternate narratives.

In any valid disagreement with the popular narrative, you WILL find conspiracy theorists.

One caveat to this situation is that IF the mainstream institutions were able to rebuild trust (by telling the truth), then you would have far less people poking holes in their narratives and therefore fewer conspiracy theories. So, I don't get angry at conspiracy theorists because I understand that they're created by a lying state and media - they're canaries not a cancer.

And then there’s guys who believed in the Wuhan lab theory from the start, and also think the vast majority of the so-called “vaccine hesitant” have absolutely nothing of value to say about Covid-19 and have no business arguing with public health authorities on the issue. They should put the donut down, forego the lunchtime cheeseburger and the evening beer, and stop worrying about incredibly small chance of something bad happening because they wore a seatbelt (got vaxxed).

You have been, and will continue to be, coerced (as you put it) every day of your life. For good reason.

What a sad way of looking at life. We used to have "if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you too?", talk about people as sheep, and generally look down on people giving in to peer pressure.

Now it seems to be a badge of honor, or at least a popular opinion, amongst educated people, to lean in to being part of a herd.

Doing stuff because it makes sense is one thing, but praising the abstract act of being peer pressured is ridiculous.

There's all kinds of things we don't do because of social pressure and legal constraints (that are there, in general, because in aggregate they make sense).

I close my mouth when I chew because of social pressure.

Someone might choose not to pick their nose in public because of social pressure.

Someone else might put the toilet seat down because of social pressure.

The amount of time I spend changing lanes before a turn is because of social pressure.

And yet someone else may not take the last helping of a treat because of social pressure.

COVID restrictions have been coercion just like drunk driving laws are coercion: rules that prevent innocent people from being hurt by reckless people’s bad decisions. A fundamental part of any civilized system is that bad behavior that is likely to hurt others is punished in order to try to deter that bad behavior. Reckless behavior during a worldwide deadly pandemic is similar to reckless behavior on the road.

I see this comparison often and it is wrong. Imagine if every driver is suddenly forced to take a breathalizer test every time before driving, even if they never had a DUI case.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com