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I've seen this opinion quite a lot recently, and I don't really understand - why do you want the iPad to be a Mac?

For me the iPad Pro is a great creative device that is surprisingly capable in a variety of other ways. I use mine for programming with ease but my workflow of using Vim over mosh/tmux in blink.sh supports that. If I was looking for a portable programming machine I'd just buy a MBA I guess.

I think the iPad Pro is great at what it does. It's an excellent portable creative device that can also be used casually. Not everything needs to be targeted towards every use-case.

FWIW I like what I've read of iPad OS 15 so far. The multitasking changes should improve things.

Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category?

I would love, for my personal use, to replace my MBP with an iPad but it just won’t be possible until there is some method for executing arbitrary code, which I see as a requirement for software engineering. Even if they just made Virtualization.framework available so you could spin up a Linux VM so things were totally sandboxed, I would be able to actually use the thing as a computer.

The reason for preferring this over a MBP comes down to several reasons: touch, form factor, pencil support and honest for “everyday” use, iPadOS is better than macOS.

Speaking of, Microsoft, surprisingly, already supports WSL on Windows on ARM: https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/2019/12/how-to-install-wsl-2-on-...

And the Linux distros available there are true ARM64.

> Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category?

Well, it's not high-status enough. Creatives have art gallery showings and groupies and die of drug overdoses on their private planes. No software engineer has ever done this.

I'm in a similar position, and I do use a Mac instead (because the developer tools I rely on won't run on an iPad). I guess the root issue is I do like the touch/pen interface for creative apps (instead of a desktop interface), just not enough to justify buying / carrying around / keeping in sync a third device in addition to a laptop and a phone.

But the iPad hardware is more than fast enough for my development tasks, and the screen size is large enough (and at home I use an external monitor anyway).

So the ideal device I'd like to buy would basically be the iPad hardware with Mac software capabilities. Obviously the current iPad works for a lot of people, so it would be fine if this was separate product. But it's a bit disappointing that it doesn't exist at all since it seems like it would be a (relatively) small amount of work for a company like Apple now that iPad/Mac hardware is very similar and Macs can run iPad apps.

What stops the iPad from being able to do these things? What actual restriction is there?

Product positioning and target market.

There is a reason why Apple is a 2 trillion company, the best in consumer satisfaction and made technology easy and accessible to toddlers and grandparents worldwide.

It never amazes me that HN crowd doesn’t understand this and keeps moaning that the latest iPad doesn’t run Kubernetes. Seriously?!

> the best in consumer satisfaction

I can see many non-satisfied customers in this comment section, are their opinions invalid? It amazes me that there's a whole crowd on HN ready to make excuses in every thread for a 2 trillion company, as if they haven't got the resources.

I don't see so many people running to apologise and do PR for free for Microsoft or Google.

> I can see many non-satisfied customers in this comment section

It's called a biased sample and has nothing to do with a genuine, general population customer satisfaction.

What makes it more biased is people are complaining about a product that is _NOT_ made for them.

> It amazes me that there's a whole crowd on HN ready to make excuses

(－‸ლ)

I have these discussions every year when a new iPadOS/iPad comes out [1], people complaining they can't run Kubernetes or do troubleshooting with MAC address access on an iPad.

My point is that in marketing (what Apple is genius at), there are such things as product positioning and target market.

Technical crowd often forgets this, and as per comments here, they'd be happy to ram iPad with never ending list of features.

iPad is not made for them. Macs are. Want to get a portable Docker developer machine? Macbook Air is cheaper and lighter than a 12.9 iPad Pro + keyboard.

I'm not making excuses for them, I understand Apple's positioning, and I understand what they're doing from marketing/business point of view.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22616352

A pencil would be pretty ridiculous for the iPad, after all artists are not Apple's target group. Oh wait, we have have one, and suddenly the iPad is one of the best devices for artists. For developers it's even easier, because the hardware is already there. Why shouldn't I be able to run Kubernetes? Isn't the iPad Pro the "fastest iPad ever made"? I have the device, now let me use it. Fun fact: other iPad users will not be affected by my ability to run Kubernetes or Docker or whatever.

I remember when Apple treated developers like first class citizens, now they see them as a cost center that cost them 70% of App Store revenue.

Personally, I’d like to run a processing JavaScript server with a Typescript compiler.

> $2000 on an Apple gift card I wanted to spend on a top spec M1 iPad Pro to watch TV shows at home and take with me on travels if I need to debug issues in production or come up with a quick fix

You want to spend $2000 to watch TV at home not on a TV? How would both of these desires not be significantly better satisfied by an M1 Air?

> A laptop is too much

Too much what? The Air costs _less_ than the 13" iPad Pro.

> A laptop is too much

I don't mean price. I mean I don't need a keyboard. A tablet is the perfect form factor for consuming media 99% of the time, and a whole laptop I'd use for 1% of the time ain't worth the money. I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?

> "I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?"

I think it's a bit of a niche use case when that pro work is software development. They can't please everyone - the design is targeted for consumption and art with some rethinking about UI for a tablet device around basic usage that's distinct from a standard laptop OS.

I'd guess for 98% of users that's what they've built and their keyboard attachment allows many of them to do their work like tasks (writing/email and such).

For devs they make laptops and macOS designed for that.

That's the entire point. You can please everyone. Just allow other OS options on the Ipad pro.

The culture that would do that without recognizing why it's not as simple as 'just allowing' something is what leads to every tablet except the iPad sucking.

They want the quality bar to be high - they make different products for different purposes.

Ipad is one of the sucky tablets. The only tablets worth anything are the windows tablets like the Surface Pros or the thinkpads.

Besides I don't see how allowing an option to install any OS you want brings down the quality of a product. If you don't want it because you feel it's low quality. Ok that's fine. Just use iOS.

Except the windows tablets suck as tablets. The touch ecosystem is barren because a lot of services just expect you'll use the website or the desktop app.

I disagree. There indeed are a lot of programs which are not touch optimized. But if that's not a fair comparison since you can't do those things on an ipad at all. If you restrict the functionality of the windows tablet to the very small subset of ipad activities then the windows tablet does not fare badly.

Yes it is. It's not just stuff like Visual Studio or Adobe Illustrator lacking touch optimized programs that aren't available on iPad, it's lacking key basics like Kindle, Comixology, Disney+, etc. They either expect you to use the website or the desktop app which isn't as good an experience as an iPad or Android tablet when only using your fingers.

I use the Kindle app very often and it works perfectly fine with touch. I have never used Disney+ but I doubt they don't work with touch. Comixology is not available on windows but Cover is a perfect alternative designed with touch in mind. From your comment it seems you didn't actually even try any of the softwares you listed.

Nope. I have. That's why I know.

D+ doesn't let you download shows for offline viewing in the browser, only apps. Cover is not an alternative to Comixology because it doesn't work with most Comixology purchases. Kindle desktop app has settings hidden away in the file bar, requiring awkward touches or a mouse to use.

You'll be less happy when the NAND wears out from running an OS tuned for enterprise HDDs.

osx is not tuned for enterprise HDDs. In fact I don't think there is any OS tuned for enterprise HDDs by default in existence.

Server OSes are, and pro software development could definitely involves some server VMs, or a lot of compiling.

Server OSes are not tuned for enterprise spinning rust drives by default. If not mind pointing me towards a "server OS" image I can download right now that will destroy SSDs out of the box?

Besides even if that were the case. People have no issue running these "server OS" on their laptops which almost always contain an SSD.

> I have a powerful desktop I love, and no mobile computing device are worth my money these days. I don't need a laptop with full keyboard and trackpad when I have a $5000 desktop at home and work outside 2 days a month; tablets have crap hardware if it's not Apple, or have the least powerful OS if you want to stay in the walled Apple garden.

VNC? RDP? Shell? One or more of those plus a local iOS code editing program with remote-file capability, if you can't stand typing input latency? If your desktop's $5,000, and you have it set up the way you want for work, and we're only talking a couple days a month....

Exactly my setup. I use my iPad quite happily for programming on those odd days by just remoting into my desktop. I hate setting up multiple dev environments anyway so I consider this a plus. It works totally fine. Less annoying than I find most laptops tbh.

Ditto

I'm not sure why a laptop isn't viable for you given your description, especially given the fact that the official Apple magic keyboard + iPad Pro 13 is actually heavier (!) and bulkier than the comparatively priced M1 Macbook Pro. That is, unless you actually want the digital art features of the iPad.

If I were in your shoes, I'd wait for the anticipated Macbook Pro 14/16 with the post-M1 CPU.

Simply because a laptop has an entirely different form factor and thinner. I mostly consume media laying down on my bed with a tablet in my hand, and a keyboard is 15 cm of accessory I do not need and makes it awkward to hold. A keyboard is 50% of the device's size which I would realistically use 0.5% of the time. Why do I need to have a physically awkward device when the only thing that stops me from using more appropriate devices is Apple's short-sightedness and lacklustre software department?

I don't need a 14/16 inch laptop to watch TV shows. And there is no touch screen on a MacBook Pro either.

I've seen this opinion quite a lot recently, and I don't really understand - why do you want the iPad to be a Mac?

For me the iPad Pro is a great creative device that is surprisingly capable in a variety of other ways. I use mine for programming with ease but my workflow of using Vim over mosh/tmux in blink.sh supports that. If I was looking for a portable programming machine I'd just buy a MBA I guess.

I think the iPad Pro is great at what it does. It's an excellent portable creative device that can also be used casually. Not everything needs to be targeted towards every use-case.

Why not? It has the power. It can use keyboards and mice now. Plus Android and Chrome tablets can do everything so at this point it's a little embarrassing IMO.

I tried emacs over mosh for a while. It mostly worked, but there would be occasions when my Mac mini's network dropped and never recovered and then I can't do anything without heading home. Plus I would just have to live with things like shuffling that PDF I made in LaTeX over somehow because I couldn't actually see it.

I prefer the iPad to Macs. I'd rather have the flexibility and portability of a tablet than a laptop. Apple's software holds back amazing hardware with arbitrary decisions. In the end I sold my iPad Pro and switched to Android.

I am in the same boat as you and so tired of people telling me to just get a Macbook... I don't want a laptop.

Apple's target customer for the iPad Pro is not software engineers trying to run Docker.

It's creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc.

Apple sells the Mac for people who want to do software engineering which includes a Terminal, Virtualisation support etc.

But don't they ALSO sell the Mac for creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc.

Why can't the iPad do software engineering stuff too?

Consider a remote execution and editing environment like GitHub CodeSpaces

Considering M1 is one of the fastest CPUs in single core, that makes no sense economically.

"Pro" has lost its meaning in the last decade. It has become a marketing buzzword that means "premium" instead of "for professionals".

Apple didn't release much of anything "Pro" in 2011. They still sold the cheesegrater with a year old chip and some laptops. No "Pro" iPad or iPhones back then.

https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2011.h...

https://everyi.com/by-year/ipod-iphone-ipad-models-released-...

Or, perhaps consider that there are other kinds of professionals out there aside from software developers.

As a software developer there is nothing worse than other software developers.

They actually think that every computing product needs to be built for them and that anyone who doesn't need virtualisation, multiple monitors etc does not have "real computing needs".

It's beyond Apple, "pro" nowadays is used to describe service subscriptions, golf clubs, earphones, etc.