There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time
Not saying you are wrong, but
The vast majority of people first get jobs to earn money THEN meet the coworkers AND having no other option besides interacting with coworkers during work hours, will try to get along
So then it becomes which company has the best culture, values, people, environment etc.
Of course most folks there probably work on super uncool tech with very average people, but those are also getting paid a whole lot of money and can enjoy the nice work environment, etc.
Morality, even if it were universal, is not a prime motivator in career choices for most people.
You can do this without forcing them to be around you. That's apparently a new concept to a lot of people.
It helps that a lot of us have worked together through multiple companies, but even the ones that haven't... I've honestly never met my manager in person just due to timing issues and the pandemic. Literally all of our interaction has been online and we have a really good relationship.
As long as I have the choice, I will never go back to an office on a regular basis. WFH works for me.
My team and I have been remote for years.
We have channels on slack for non work stuff and we post memes, news, etc. We also have DM groups and just chat. We’ve got more people on the meme channels outside of the team. It’s a nice group. I even play games with some on my switch.
I’ve only been to the company 3 times split between 2 locations.
I’m looking to change teams soon. So advancement opportunities are there. Never met in person the manager, so it’s not that.
Based on my experience, I believe it depends on the company, team culture and the people. By team culture I mean more how the team is run. Some are run very competitive others more collaborative.
Then what started happening over the next couple of years is they'd reach out to other people in our department one or two at a time and offer them jobs, like one would put in notice this month, then a couple months later another, then a few months later a couple more, etc.
I think currently they have about 12-15 employees at that company that all used to work in my department. They have more former employees than this department does at this point.
They reached out to me as well, but at the time they were looking for someone with less experience (I would have had to take a pay cut and a lower job title), otherwise they might have gotten me also. According to a former coworker who works there it's definitely a lot more laid back of a job.
I should note they didn't get everyone who left here. I know a couple of the more ambitious people in the department met with them but decided against it, probably due to not offering enough, and left for another opportunity later.
We shouldn’t be forced to come in; but I for one would freakin’ love the option.
This is a primary cause of concern for kids at school; that the social aspect is missing in that way.
Nowhere close, really.
If you are one of those people you can keep working from home. All I'm asking is for the respect that I am not one of those people - and for my employer to please give me the option to go in. Thanks.
Well said. WFH doesn't fix a bad job or a draining company culture. If your job is miserable and you can't stand your coworkers then you need to find another job, remote or not.
That said, having worked with an effective team in a hybrid environment (even before the pandemic) the idea of companies forcing people back into the office mostly reads as a lack of trust in the people they've hired. To me, that indicates a different set of problems.
I think when you’re a C level, the size and appeal of the office gets melded into your ego, and you can’t get the same boost from people working from home.
Don't assume that your view of the world is the same for everyone.
Please point out where I did that.
if you're a person who can make friends easily, even at work, you're missing a lot.
Thanks for reminding me why I started working remotely 15 years ago.
If you aren't a middle manager and the employee is productive, then honestly why do you have an opinion?
Im not 20 any more so the idea of going for pints after work isn't appealing to me anymore.
Of course. Especially those that hate their families (or themselves and can't spend time alone).
A few Americans, but very few, still have extended families. The Navahos. The Kennedys.
But most of us, if we get married nowadays, are just one more person for the other person. The groom gets one more pal, but it’s a woman. The woman gets one more person to talk to about everything, but it’s a man.
When a couple has an argument, they may think it’s about money or power or sex, or how to raise the kids, or whatever. What they’re really saying to each other, though, without realizing it, is this: “You are not enough people!”
— Kurt Vonnegut
I couldn't imagine wilfully remaining at a job with coworkers so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.
I think the very point of GP is that there are many people who do, in fact, develop friendships with their coworkers.
Sometimes I do wonder how much of this is the fault of skewed incentives of the workplace, versus just a paradox of human interaction. We think we're developing friendships by spending a lot of time with people, without realizing that time spent is of a transactional nature rather than furthering some connection. I spend a lot of time with coworkers, therefore a feel close to them. However, when asked, I realize I know almost nothing about them below the surface.
In any case, I can appreciate that forming friendships at work can be more challenging. But I do believe many people (including myself) have done this, and when it works it can be incredibly powerful and make work much more enjoyable.
I'm simply saying that those people who have developed friendships with the people they work with likely don't view "going to work" as a painful, soul-sucking task they have to perform simply to achieve a paycheck.
It is, in fact, possible to simultaneously realize that you're in a transactional business relationship with an employer who is compensating you for services, and that those around you are also in that same relationship, and to use that as a common ground upon which a friendship can be built that makes the transactional relationship less painful.
I also believe there are some people who do, genuinely, enjoy the work they do. The general point I'm trying to make throughout this thread is that it'd be great if folks realized that there is a diversity to opinions about work much in the same way as there is diversity to every other thing in life and it's simply not a binary choice between "work is wonderful and I want to spend my life at the office" and "work is awful and I can't stand commuting, sharing space with coworkers, paying egregious rent, etc." As with most things in life, the reality is most people live somewhere in the middle of that gradient. Acknowledging that is helpful if we want to make progress towards optimal, inclusive solutions.
For my argument to work, it doesn't need to be an ordeal though: just less preferable to family, kids, and friends.