Hacker News Reader

Comment by andy_ppp | Hacker News Reader

Does this happen with lots of viruses or just SARS-CoV-2? Seems like it’s pretty rare and would not be a whole copy of the virus or that many cells, surely it would just be a small percentage to the point where it doesn’t matter?

View on HN

It happens frequently with retroviruses. In fact 5-8% of the human genome is from (ancient) retrovirii. Coronavirus however is a completely different class of virus which makes it interesting, at least to me.

Sorry for the nitpick but virii is neither in Latin nor English a plural of virus. The Latin would be vira the English viruses. There are a couple of common variants floating around that probably originate from misunderstanding Latin.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. "vira"? In Latin, virus is a mass noun (like applesauce), so you can pluralize however you want in English because using it in the singular only works in English anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_...

What makes you think you can pluralize it in English however you want? Yeah, I mean you can do whatever and ignore grammar I guess. It's not illegal.

Faux Latin and "Latin" declension is annoying because it's often just plain wrong.

We're getting completely off track here but I agree; to me it seems to be kind of an extension to grammar pedantism, as it only serves to indicate little beyond "I know this word's origins". What's wrong with "viruses" or "octopuses"?

Tangents and secants are how we learn.

And if we don't stop to smell the roses, how will we remember how good roses smell?

So let's not defenestrate curiosity wherever it leads with the culture of "no," because you're not a moderator. So don't pretend to be the king who decides what is permitted and forbidden to be discussed; that's contrary to an open and free society.

There's nothing wrong with "viruses" or "octopuses." Please read and understand that "faux Latin" means these tweaked "smarty" words aren't even Latin half of the time.

Don't let the bastards drag you down, man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum

I had actual Latin on a license plate frame on a sports car that roughly translated to "eat my dust/shit/detritus." I can't remember the exact tenses of the words, but it took me a while to get it right.

Apparently this seems to be an ongoing and contentious internet debate lol. There's even a wiki article on the subject.[1] The main three arguments appear to be that virii 1) is grammatically incorrect Latin, 2) virus has historically never had a latin plural "as it is a mass noun" and 3) it's a neologistic folk etymology.

While I may agree with the grammatical merits [1)] I'm not convinced (yet). The second argument [2)] that it's never had a historical plural doesn't hold up. The field of virology is much more recent so the need for a plural 'virus' didn't exist at the time.

And 3) is literally how words are formed. If a term used frequently enough it eventually becomes a word regardless of the original grammatical correctness. The term even has 175 years of precedent.[2] As cactus has the plural cacti it's non-obvious why the same doesn't hold true for virus.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in... [2] https://archive.org/details/homopathictreati00test/page/48/m...

Well the article even states:

> The enzyme, reverse transcriptase, is encoded by LINE-1 elements, sequences that litter 17% of the human genome and represent artifacts of ancient infections by retroviruses.

Sure, I read that bit but I think it’s interesting that other coronaviruses are thought not to rewrite DNA.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus

According to this thread from another virus expert [1], you can integrate pretty much every class of viruses in the system the authors of this paper used.

[1] https://twitter.com/ArisKatzourakis/status/13904196191696732...

Yes, there are several types of viruses that purposely insert things into DNA. In fact, a significant part (more than half?) of our DNA comes from viruses (but is inactive).

Coronaviruses are not known to do this, so I'd bet on a lab error for now. But it is conceivable.

This isn't a case of the viruses themselves purposely inserting their code into our DNA, but rather enzymes that we produce ourselves doing it.

Not sure where you all get your numbers from, when it is even explicitly mentioned in the posted article:

> The enzyme, reverse transcriptase, is encoded by LINE-1 elements, sequences that litter 17% of the human genome and represent artifacts of ancient infections by retroviruses.

Yes, happens a lot. HIV is a notable instance.

Yes, and birds fly frequently, but elephants don't seem too. All viruses are not the same, they are extremely diverse.

Lovable HN snarkiness here. I didn't say that every virus does it. Geez.

Pardon the snark- it was not intended to be aggressive. I'm a microbiologist and have spent much of my life thinking about virus biology and pathogenesis. My perspective is skewed from general public but over the last year, the frequent casual comparisons between influenza, coronavirues, and other dramatically different viruses has heightened my sensitivity.

I guessed that you're a biologist (or have some kind of bio fascination) given your account handle ;) I'm a molecular biologist myself (more on the comp. side) for the last decade. HIV is certainly a special case given it codes its own RT enzyme.

I get the sensitivity and the frustration --- the most minor, off-hand comment (such as the one I made) can potentially fuel all manner of conspiracy theory. I spent much of my morning dealing with a group of people on a shared group suddenly re-discovering the Plandemic documentary.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com