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Comment by shakaijin | Hacker News Reader

I have been noticing the impact of excessive multitasking on myself lately, and I am now actively trying to avoid it. At first i thought that multitasking would increase my overall efficiency by filling in gaps of downtime in certain tasks, but it soon turned me into a person incapable of focusing on anything deeply. One day, I noticed that I am unable to read a book the same way i did as a child (cover to cover in one sitting for example), and it kind of shocked me. I now have a rule that i do one thing only, and start other tasks only when the previous task has been finished. This applies to both productive work (learning, programming etc.) and entertainment (YouTube, books etc.). I think that it is starting to help, but I feel like it will take time to undo the damage of years of bad multitasking.

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I have noticed it as well, but I haven't gotten to the point of doing anything about it yet.

If I'm playing a video game, I have to be listening to a podcast. If I'm reading a book, I have to check the news every few minutes. If I'm writing code, I have to turn on some sort of background noise. The only times I'm productive are when I, by some accident, get past the initial discomfort of doing only one thing, and get lost in the activity before I have time to think about it.

It's definitely a bad trait, but I didnt cognitively realize that until this thread made me think about it.

I strongly encourage you to do something about it now, not later. It gets harder to fix the longer you let it go.

I struggle with how to handle this at work. I am a data engineer and while writing new scripts to pull data, the testing process sometimes involves waiting 15 mins to an hour (or more) for all the data to pull. Some times I'll start a new task in the middle of the pull or, if I expect it'll only be a few minutes, I'll flip out my phone. But once the data is finished pulling, I'll then need to jump back it and validate it one last time.

I'm curious what others do during this sort of downtime?

You need to shorten the feedback loop to become productive. Maybe you could optimize your environment to operate on smaller data sets during the development? Introduce sampling, local caching etc. Then once you feel confident about the code you run it over the final data-set.

I often find myself stuck staring at screen when some lengthy process occurs. What helps is adding progress indicator, ETA clock, some audible OS notification on finish. Or better take a walk and get a SMS once the process finishes :)

I read in a book, the idea is to break away from a similar kind of task and get back to it after break. If you are still at the computer doing other things while the code is being executed, you are in the same zone different task. But if you use the breaks to do a completely different activity you will be able to come back with a fresh mind and do the task well.

So read a paper book , take a walk, print research papers and read them when you are waiting,

The idea is to treat each of the tasks between waiting as individual task.

Edit: book mind of numbers

I usually try to have a single main task that requires my attention, and fill the gaps with menial tasks that don't require a lot of focus, clean up the code, improve documentation, add examples, spell check the wiki, stuff like that. If I run out of things I'll search for some article or tutorial about something related like a library or a tool I'm using and see if there's anything useful in there that I can apply to my code. If that's still not enough I'll consider starting something else or just browse HN for a while if I just need wait something like 10 or 15 minutes.

Why not automate the last step and send a message on success/failure (or automatically retry based on error type)?

https://xkcd.com/303/

I'm curious, what is your approach to some of the most common distractions in society? Namely TV (youtube?), movies, video games, and social media. Personally I have completely removed TV, social media, and video games. I only watch 1, maybe 2 movies per month. I know that I am much much happier having removed those things from my life, but I still have a hard time focusing. Wondering what other steps I could take.

My current approach is probably dumb, but the main thing I am trying to eliminate is me unconsciously accessing distractions (Reddit, YouTube etc.). I have basically conditioned myself to always go to such sites, and my body just opens them, even when trying to focus on some task, without it being a conscious decision. I have partially solved this by blocking all distractions I usually go to with my DNS (PiHole), so every time I unconsciously try to access such sites I get an error and snap back into reality, so to speak. I do sometimes unblock things, but I make sure that it is a conscious decision.

Try to practice a ritual like writing the names of websites down and then throwing the piece of paper into the trash. I find that it helps to interrupt the mindless opening of the distracting sites. It gives me a brief moment as I'm opening the distraction where I remember that I chose to sacrifice this thing, and I bail out. This requires regular practice of whatever ritual you create.

Write the names on dollar bills and you're fixed.

I have some practical question:

- Is sitting in a meeting, listening and taking notes multi-tasking?

- Is listening to a podcast while jogging multi-tasking?

- Cooking and talking to friends on the phone?

I think multitasking is one of those words that has been used so much it has been reified. Ive never really thought it was a real thing outside of some careful and nonuniversal definition. What is inside or outside the task of jogging differs depending on your goal for jogging. And what is central to your attention is also very fluid. same goes for listening to a podcast.. If your on a running machine, listening to Nerd poker, you probably wont miss any of the best jokes, if your running in a city crossing roads listening to 99pi you might not remember it all afterwards. sometimes I find moving while listening to something increases my recall because of the spatial associations made.

Multitasking is more like beeing in two meeting simultaneously and taking notes on both, writing a functional specification for a project while talking to your spouse about the weekly shopping list, talking with your coworker about a problem in a codebase while you work in _another_ codebase, trying to fix a production server while watching for cars on the road your kids are playing...

Thanks, that is helpful.

I wonder if it can be defined through System 1 and 2 activities. So doing a System 1 task + System 2 task simultaneously would be ok, but not doing System 1 task + another System 1 task.

Yeah the constant context switching is the real culpurit.

I suspect the answer depends in part on how competent you are at the activity.

For example, if I'm learning to jog at a new cadence (180spm) I need to focus on just that. Once that's become my baseline I can listen to a podcast.

Similarly, if I'm at a stage of unconscious competence [1] driving to work, I can speak with a passenger. However, if it's a new section of road I'll need to pay more attention to signage, etc. at the cost of the conversation.

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

As for jogging, I think it depends on your goals but I generally wouldn't recommend listening to music or podcasts.

Instead, try to focus on yourself, your sensations, the smoothness/effectivness of your stride, cadence and so on. There is actually plenty to keep your brain busy.

It will help prevent injuries and make you a better runner.

I find the same while driving on motorways. Music is okay, but news / talk radio can sometimes distract me from what is going on and I lose situational awareness. Phone calls are right out.

Cooking and talking is multitasking if you make an elaborate dish requiring skill and focus. It isn't otherwise.

Listening and jogging isn't, unless you struggle with some serious mobility impediment.

Sitting in a meeting is very rarely a cognitively challenging task as well.

Sure sitting alone is not, but what about listening and taking notes?

You still are focused on one context only. Maybe if you have dyslexia and have to focus on the writing.

There are quite a few opinions in the replies to you.

None seem to account for: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-dependent_memory

Do what works for you.

I think you can generally do one physical thing on autopilot while still doing one mental task. Doing two mental or physical tasks at the same time is where it gets tricky.

Yes

Have you noticed that your inability to just “read a book” differs by genre? I suffer from that with pretty much any fiction, but can still lose afternoons reading a well-written history or scientific explainer.

Not op, but yes. It is not just difference in genre. The books that appeared to me as awesome when I was younger are completely uninteresting now. I try to read and switch into twitter within three pages.

But, once in a while I run into completely different book and cant stop reading it. Books that I would find boring back then I think. Like you, I read way more well-written history now, but there is also occasional fiction.

I think that the big difference is that once you are well into adulthood, it is much harder to come across book recommendation that suits you. The market is dominated by youth needs I guess.

The market isn't dominated by youth needs. It might seem that way because your selection shrinks over time, but try this model:

Finding good books is a multi-armed bandit problem, and most of us follow intuitively a strategy well suited to that - explore (figure out which levers to pull, or which kinds of writing you care about, by randomly pursuing) and exploit (pick things that you know to be good because you spent time evaluating).

As you age, you're becoming more discerning, because you now know better what's possible, and you know better what suits you. But since the landscape is, for practical purposes, infinite, you also face the hill climbing problem of local maxima. That's why picking new random books in different areas works - it allows you to get "unstuck", and possibly find new maxima.

This also means - sorry - that at some point "well-written history" won't really do it for you any more, either. You'll have explored that landscape enough to become stuck on a local maximum. It will be something like "I really enjoy books about 1600-1800 by these five authors, it's just the best". And then you've read all those, and hopefully something entirely different crosses your path.

Enjoy the ride :)

That sounds like awful lot of work for very little gain.

Which is exactly the difference between market that is dominated by people like you and the one that does not. I don't need to go out of way to explore to find tv series I will like. That market is clearly dominated by people like me.

That is how humans behave instinctively. It isn't work. It just happens. The same will happen to your TV series. At some point, you'll like different stuff.

It also isn't "little gain" - it's the most efficient approach to the multi-armed bandit problem. Other approaches are less efficient.

Or, have we become boring? I've noticed I have outgrown some things I loved as a young adult, like most videogames; though I don't know if it's just me being anti-commercial stuff, trying to avoid becoming a pay-to-win customer, and more of a buy-once customer.

It’s okay to move on. Maybe you not liking videogames is boring to those who still enjoy them? I’ve moved on from most games and it feels like fresh air, in part because I used games as a generally-unhealthy escape (as one might do with alcohol, I now play games in celebration rather than habitually or to escape emotions). It feels healthy to reevaluate how I spend money and time.

> Or, have we become boring?

Why would "not liking the same books as before" imply "we became boring"?

What lead you to believe excessive multitasking is the cause? Could it be related to other lifestyle changes, diet, exercise, medications, even perhaps aging?

Highly recommend "The Shallows". (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9778945-the-shallows) It's a book about our brains becoming shallow, incapable of deep processes like reading a book.

This describes having children pretty well. You’re always just jumping in to rescue them from themselves all day long. There’s no time to have a single coherent thought or even spit out a sentence- it’s just single words. “Off! Fingers fingers! Shoes! Out!”

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