Appsterdam: A Haven for Indie App Makers?
venturebeat.com
venturebeat.com
Like:
- Average cost of living is X
- Developers can earn X-Z salary
- Tax burden for companies is X
- You can find apartments in the range of X-Y at site Z
- X companies joined this initiative and are hiring
- There are weekly meetups at Bar X,Y,Z at time A
- Successful companies in Amsterdam include X,Y,Z they are all hanging out at location A
The meeting on 6th July in their event planner is labelled as 'weekly' though that would mean there should be one in a couple days too (?)
If you are an entrepreneur I would recommend never to hire a fulltime employee and only hire contractors or be absolutely certain on who you hire. We had such big problems with a few employees and the government would not let us fire them. Our company had to pay them compensation and help find them a new job?!?! We also had another employee that became to stressed with the workload and the Dutch government told us we had to pay his salary until he returns for up to 2 years.
Finally the nail in the coffin for me was the weather. I couldn't take wind and rain for what seemed like months straight and summer lasting for sometimes only 1 month.
I wish Appsterdam success but for me I prefer lower taxes and better climate. Malta or Switzerland anyone?
In general, for some reason Americans imagine that European countries always have government-run healthcare, presumably because that's what Britain has. In fact, most European countries have hybrid systems, with insurance provided by private companies or in some cases unions, and heavily regulated and subsidized by the government.
As for taxes: while taxes in NL are indeed extremely high, there are loopholes for foreign high skilled workers ("kennismigranten.") My cynical public choice economist interpretation is that the Dutch government realized that this group of people is more likely to vote with their feet, inducing a different Laffer curve, and as such the taxation rate maximizing public revenue is a bit lower in their case...
As for finding housing: very strict rent control laws depress rents way below market rates, which of course means that demand outstrips supply and some allocation mechanism other than price must be invented. In the Dutch case, most rental property subject to rent control is owned by semi-public nonprofits, and their allocation mechanism is almost universally a waiting list. In the case of Amsterdam, there are many districts for which a 7 year waiting list is not out of the ordinary. While there is a blanket exception from the strictest rent control laws for properties with a monthly rent above about 650 euros, the city of Amsterdam has the additional problem that an even larger share of rental properties is owned by said semi-public nonprofits ("woningcorporaties") than in other cities. As an outsider looking to get a"vrije sector" apartment (i.e. over 650 euros a month and thus exempt from the strictest rent control rules) you're in trouble. Consider living in Amstelveen, which has a lot of "vrije sector" housing because it is historically run by the liberal party, whereas Amsterdam is historically run by the labor party.
Amsterdam is a cosmopolitan, small city -- a combination you won't find many other places. It's a college town, a tourist attraction, and a center of international commerce. The city center and indeed many of the residential neighborhoods are extremely beautiful, at least if you're into brick and trees. You'll find many decently trained people to hire, all of whom speak Dutch and English fluently as well as a bit of German and French. You'll find that official bureaucracy is comparatively efficient and honest. You'll find well maintained, if slightly underprovisioned, highways linking you to the rest of Europe, as well as comfortable, clean trains running to every significant town in the country twice an hour, and a very well designed and operated international airport with a train station in the basement.
- I for one am very curious about laws around foreigners coming to Amsterdam to work, securing work visas etc.? - How easy is it for an entrepreneur to move there i.e. no job offer, just moving and looking for contract or to start their own company?
Before publicly stating that idea I would have waited until I had lived in the place for a few years.
I've been to Amsterdam and about 50 or so other cities in 30 countries(sorry for the humble brag here). I would never come to that conclusion for one reason: the winter weather.
I personally love the Northern California climate and would say San Francisco is the most livable city in the world(I've lived there for 2.5 years). But Amsterdam is a cool place and a great city. I could see how it'd be nice to live there if you don't mind crummy weather in the winter.
From my personal point of view I can tell you that it's bearable. I biked all winter long and I can bear it. That's not the only way to move of course, and a lot of people take public transport during the winter, even though a good percentage still bikes.
Moreover I like much more changing seasons and I'm not really a fan of hot weather. That's why I love the summer here, it's more like a long spring.
Anyway, weather really comes down to personal preferences. I know people here that don't like the weather and others that live with it very well. Here I learned not to care that much about the weather, and it works for me.
Exactly. I'm glad there are people like you that enjoy the winters(my family in Boston does too--to a degree). Otherwise everyone would move to places like California and it'd be pretty hard to live!
That being said Amsterdam has enough of the ingredients to make that happen, and I think it's a wonderful initiative, keep it going!
I don't quite understand the part about Berlin, though - why not raise a family in Berlin (especially if the alternative is not some rural area but other large cities)? I found the side-stab against Ireland a little weird as well, wouldn't have considered Dublin to be "in the middle of nowhere", or was that about attracting developers to join your startup in Dublin being hard? (Never tried that, could well be the case). The last time I was in Amsterdam 10 years ago I thought it would be a nice place to live, but I feel the same about Ireland and I am living in Berlin right now, so ... )
To put it short: I think all 4 cities are worth taking into account and it depends a lot on your particular situation. Seeing startup funds like this pop up is awesome and I hope more places in Europe will follow :°)
[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1565375
[2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2573513 (link-baity title though)
I'm self employed. It wasn't that hard to get health insurance. I guess YMMV.
A few weeks ago, I submitted the original Appsterdam blog post to HN http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2476430
That post was killed within minutes :)
People often explain it as kindness, but it's really just plain rude laziness: for many Dutch people, speaking slow and clear Dutch requires a lot more energy than upspeed English. Let alone listening to and trying to understand broken Dutch.
Though funnily enough I will (during the summer) quite often get addressed in German when I enter a shop, at which point I haven't even said anything yet nor do I speak German.
If you want people to take the time and trouble to speak Dutch, consider asking them, preferably in a context without time constraints.
edit: oh Skrebbel, I see now it's you and I know you're Dutch. Point still stands though :)
Everybody everywhere speaks english: shops, public transport, you name it. Even children, since the TV shows are in english with subtitles. Movies at the cinema are not dubbed and have subtitles as well.
The only time I needed to use any of the Dutch I had learned before coming was with some immigrants for whom English would be their third language.
That said, outside of Amsterdam, some rudimentary Dutch helps a lot, especially if you're using public transport. Also, even just trying will automatically garner you a little respect with the locals, they're a bit sick of people who don't even try. ;)
Paperwork is in dutch, but you get plenty of help everywhere.
Join the movement to make Berlin the new Sillicon Valley.
“I became disillusioned with the way the United States was going in general. I myself had no health insurance and no way of getting health insurance as a self-employed person.”
Uh...no way of getting health insurance? How about PAYING for it? I hardly make any money, but I can still afford the $120/month I pay for my health insurance. Even if you go to a country like Europe with socialized healthcare, you are still paying for it if you are making money, via taxes. In fact, you are paying MORE for it since you are paying for your health insurance plus insurance for all of the unemployed. Taxes go over 50 percent of income in many European countries. In other words, there is no such thing as "free" healthcare - someone always pays for it.