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Comment by popotamonga | Hacker News Reader

Sometimes i wonder if i'm in the path for that. Because even though i do 13h days every day of extremelly stressing work (putting out fires all the time), i do always get 8h sleep and 1h exercise. And so so food.

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Research is conflicting, but burnout many times is not caused by the amount of hours worked, whether you are exercising, eating right, etc. Those may be components to it or make you less resilient in general, but burnout seems to really come from things like feeling lack of meaning/purpose, inconsistency in values, perceived or actual unfairness, etc.

Another interesting perspective I have heard describes burnout as being an imbalance between what you want to do/work on vs. what you have to do/work on.

Similarly, while we like to think of “self care” as part of the cure to burnout, self care does not necessarily mean eating right, exercising, etc. Those things are important and may help, but self care also includes things like living a life consistent with your values, finding time to fulfill work that is viewed as meaningful/aligned with a purpose, etc.

The article linked below is worth the read if you’re interested.

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/burnout

One can argue about compounding factors, but working too hard is always there in burnout cases.

I disagree and I do not see why it would not be possible to become burned out when your workload is too low-pressure. Some people thrive under such conditions and languish under others. However, some issues unrelated to working too hard are far more universal, such as feelings of being unfairly treated, lack of autonomy, feeling trapped or stuck in a position due to other responsibilities, etc.

I think there is an implication in the name: to burn out you have to burn in the first place. My personal experience, that of some colleagues and multiple accounts of other people I've read over the years suggest that.

There are certainly other ingredients than just overwork (despair, low project morale, lack of stewardship, blame culture) that make people fizzle out. But working too much is there in all accounts.

Your anecdotal evidence supports your view, mine contradicts yours. So no, I don't think it can be unequivocally stated that "working too much is there in all accounts".

To your point regarding "burning", flames burn at different intensities and temperatures based on a variety of factors (e.g., material being burnt). The fact that a flame is burning, or has stopped doing so, is not indicative of a specific intensity.

We are right in the discussion threads about a person who worked themselves into unconscious, just saying.

It's not like general workplace toxicity, heartbreaks etc are not equally huge personal problems of their own, but that's why they have their own names.

The person was not diagnosed with burnout. People have died playing video games too long and too hard - is that burnout? We're going to have to just agree to disagree here as I'm not sure either of us are really going to persuade each other from our respective viewpoints. I did enjoy the conversation though and thank you for taking the time to offer your perspective on the matter!

One issue with "self-care" is that it reinforces the idea that those problems are just individual problems.

And to some extent, they are. But to let an employee go and send them on a quest to fix their personal issue is such a very easy distraction from more systematic causes. No need to fix work culture if it was just that one person. No need to question social norms that might nudge people into working an unhealthy number of hours. I guess this is a good day to think about this.

True and all fair points. However, I think it may also suggest that people are not powerless/helpless in their situation, even if they are stuck in a job or society that places too much pressure on some.

Personal opinion, but where I think many may begin to really suffer from burnout is when they feel like they cannot do anything to improve or change their situation, and that it is futile to even try.

If nothing else, self care is something an individual who is struggling can control in the midst of a bunch of things they cannot.

The problem is that the culture kindof pushes people to extremes where they inevitably burn out. After the first burnout, which is a very scary new experience, people learn not to push to those limits, but there’s always new people to burn out. We’re lucky that the stigma of burning out is diminishing, before we’d have to suffer in silence and shame.

Compare it with how you feel when you are on holidays. If there's a noticeable difference (not having muscle micro spasms, better sleep - or very tired just when you start them -, better breathing, more inspired or willing to try new things, etc) then you should reconsider to reduce the amount of stress/work in your life.

Holi-what? People on the path to burnout are usually the ones trying to push away time off. 'I'll rest when this is finished' - narrator: it never ended, the exceptional became nominal...

You know, I think it may not have to do with the long hours specifically. I mean, when you work 13h a day, and you enjoy it, this could be totally fine?

But when you say "extremelly stressing work," I guess you're not enjoying it. :)

And well, I felt physically OK for 3...4 years. Psychologically not OK, but physically OK.

Until one day, I wasn't anymore.

But why? There are plenty of good companies that have work life balance. Why not move to one of them?

I'm also curious!

Self employed and making 8x more tha my peers. I keep saying i'll stop it next year for 8 years.

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