Comment by misterremote | Hacker News Reader

Comment by misterremote | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I don't know about the glucose ...

... but burning out can really destroy your life. I know it destroyed mine. It took me years to recover, and I'm still not 100%.

I started working for an early stage startup right after school when I was 19yo. I didn't sleep. I didn't eat properly. Our team was small. Responsibilities super high. And I burned out.

Oh, I have so many stories from this time... like when I hadn't slept for 3 days and my body shut down when I was driving home from the office – I was so tired that my body went to sleep behind the wheel.

I wrote about it here: https://remotehunt.com/blog/4-day-work-weeks-in-remote-compa...

--

Edit 30m later: I went for a run after writing this comment (you know, to be outside and be less stressed out), and while running, I remembered that I once had a "pop" in my head too. My "pop" could have been different from the author's, of course, but I would describe it as a "pop."

I went to the ER immediately, and they did some basic blood pressure tests, etc. Then concluded that I probably had an anxiety attack (they get this often). Docs gave me some pills that took my anxiety away, and I was fine afterward. It was another sign for me to slow down.

But it's hard to slow down when you're already far down the burnout road. In debt, but a family to support, etc.

If I hadn't had a family at the time, I would have probably just quit the whole society game. Moved to a small hut somewhere near the beach. Alone, without a phone to reach me.

Oof yeah this resonates with me too. I did two failed startups back to back a number of years ago and had a lot of health issues after that which I’m sure were due to the stress and burnout.

And... I’m actually sitting on a hospital bed this very moment because of high blood pressure and some other symptoms that are probably caused by the blood pressure, but they want to do some more tests to be sure.

Sometimes i wonder if i'm in the path for that. Because even though i do 13h days every day of extremelly stressing work (putting out fires all the time), i do always get 8h sleep and 1h exercise. And so so food.

Research is conflicting, but burnout many times is not caused by the amount of hours worked, whether you are exercising, eating right, etc. Those may be components to it or make you less resilient in general, but burnout seems to really come from things like feeling lack of meaning/purpose, inconsistency in values, perceived or actual unfairness, etc.

Another interesting perspective I have heard describes burnout as being an imbalance between what you want to do/work on vs. what you have to do/work on.

Similarly, while we like to think of “self care” as part of the cure to burnout, self care does not necessarily mean eating right, exercising, etc. Those things are important and may help, but self care also includes things like living a life consistent with your values, finding time to fulfill work that is viewed as meaningful/aligned with a purpose, etc.

The article linked below is worth the read if you’re interested.

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/burnout

One issue with "self-care" is that it reinforces the idea that those problems are just individual problems.

And to some extent, they are. But to let an employee go and send them on a quest to fix their personal issue is such a very easy distraction from more systematic causes. No need to fix work culture if it was just that one person. No need to question social norms that might nudge people into working an unhealthy number of hours. I guess this is a good day to think about this.

True and all fair points. However, I think it may also suggest that people are not powerless/helpless in their situation, even if they are stuck in a job or society that places too much pressure on some.

Personal opinion, but where I think many may begin to really suffer from burnout is when they feel like they cannot do anything to improve or change their situation, and that it is futile to even try.

If nothing else, self care is something an individual who is struggling can control in the midst of a bunch of things they cannot.

The problem is that the culture kindof pushes people to extremes where they inevitably burn out. After the first burnout, which is a very scary new experience, people learn not to push to those limits, but there’s always new people to burn out. We’re lucky that the stigma of burning out is diminishing, before we’d have to suffer in silence and shame.

One can argue about compounding factors, but working too hard is always there in burnout cases.

I disagree and I do not see why it would not be possible to become burned out when your workload is too low-pressure. Some people thrive under such conditions and languish under others. However, some issues unrelated to working too hard are far more universal, such as feelings of being unfairly treated, lack of autonomy, feeling trapped or stuck in a position due to other responsibilities, etc.

I think there is an implication in the name: to burn out you have to burn in the first place. My personal experience, that of some colleagues and multiple accounts of other people I've read over the years suggest that.

There are certainly other ingredients than just overwork (despair, low project morale, lack of stewardship, blame culture) that make people fizzle out. But working too much is there in all accounts.

Your anecdotal evidence supports your view, mine contradicts yours. So no, I don't think it can be unequivocally stated that "working too much is there in all accounts".

To your point regarding "burning", flames burn at different intensities and temperatures based on a variety of factors (e.g., material being burnt). The fact that a flame is burning, or has stopped doing so, is not indicative of a specific intensity.

We are right in the discussion threads about a person who worked themselves into unconscious, just saying.

It's not like general workplace toxicity, heartbreaks etc are not equally huge personal problems of their own, but that's why they have their own names.

The person was not diagnosed with burnout. People have died playing video games too long and too hard - is that burnout? We're going to have to just agree to disagree here as I'm not sure either of us are really going to persuade each other from our respective viewpoints. I did enjoy the conversation though and thank you for taking the time to offer your perspective on the matter!

Compare it with how you feel when you are on holidays. If there's a noticeable difference (not having muscle micro spasms, better sleep - or very tired just when you start them -, better breathing, more inspired or willing to try new things, etc) then you should reconsider to reduce the amount of stress/work in your life.

Holi-what? People on the path to burnout are usually the ones trying to push away time off. 'I'll rest when this is finished' - narrator: it never ended, the exceptional became nominal...

You know, I think it may not have to do with the long hours specifically. I mean, when you work 13h a day, and you enjoy it, this could be totally fine?

But when you say "extremelly stressing work," I guess you're not enjoying it. :)

And well, I felt physically OK for 3...4 years. Psychologically not OK, but physically OK.

Until one day, I wasn't anymore.

But why? There are plenty of good companies that have work life balance. Why not move to one of them?

I'm also curious!

Self employed and making 8x more tha my peers. I keep saying i'll stop it next year for 8 years.

TBH i wouldn't change that experience for anything.

During my early 20s, like you, i was working at a startup and had super high workload. Definitely burned out a few times but the motivation was high and i enjoyed every minute of it.

It pushed me beyond my limits and i learned so much in a very short time period.

Now, i'm closer to my 30s i don't think i could do this again. But with time comes wisdom and instead of high energy/high workload i choose to work smart/not hard.

> but burning out can really destroy your life.

However, does burnout occur when one is doing stuff they like?

I was under the impression that it occurs only when there is some negative aspect to the work one is doing (like setbacks, uncooperative colleagues, impossible deadlines).

I think it can but in a very different way. When I burnout from something I like working on, I want to work more but just don’t have the energy to do it. In cases where I’m not passionate and I’m doing something stemming from a place of need, not only is my energy depleted but my stress levels rise, I won’t be able to think properly about the problem, I get obsessive about finishing work at the cost of quality, etc

Burnout is from overpressure. You might love programming but if the startup is failing, the boss is slowly going mad and you don't know what bug to fix first, love won't help you.

Or it might be entirely internal and kind of caused by your love, e.g. turning insane from your inability to focus on programming and finish anything due to undiagnosed ADHD (my case).

No pressure - no burnout, I think.

still not 100% in what way? physical impairment? ambition? appetite for work? damaged relationships? personality? ability to socialise?

For a while, I wasn't even able to work properly. And I started having thoughts like, "maybe I will never recover and be able to support my family." It was scary.

I physically didn't have the necessary energy. I was exhausted all the time. I could code for an hour max, and then I just couldn't anymore. But this improved a lot over a couple of years.

But today: my physical body hasn't fully recovered from the sleepless nights, wrong sitting positions, etc. Lower back, neck, for example. I know these can be improved through exercise, and I do it more and more.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com