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Comment by segmondy | Hacker News Reader

Are they also going to force "the right to sell" instead of rent? Nothing is stopping companies from renting instead of selling their products. We already see that with software, no one is trying to sell software these days, it's all subscriptions. It could happen with hardware, in which case you don't have the right to repair since it never belonged to you.

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No, because the key difference between renting and buying is that if you rent something, the provider will be forced to repair it for you. The issue is that they try to have it both ways, the strict control of renting something (users can't resell it, repair it, modify it) and the reduced responsibility of selling it.

I've been wondering if we're going to need to do something like that some day.

With the way tech is increasingly getting locked down, what if we end up in a future where all the major computer vendors won't sell you anything, only lease it to you under strict terms, which include the right for them to brick it for any reason. Sure, you can still buy parts and build your own computer, but you can't use it for any bank or credit card transaction or government website because it's not SECURE. If fact, even wanting to own your own computer makes you a suspicious person to law enforcement because why do you need it? Are you trying to distribute child porn? In fact, child porn is the reason Comcast stated to justify a new policy that will go into effect soon, which will only allow devices running on trusted hardware/OS to connect to the internet at all...

> "With the way tech is increasingly getting locked down, what if we end up in a future where all the major computer vendors won't sell you anything, only lease it to you under strict terms, which include the right for them to brick it for any reason. Sure, you can still buy parts and build your own computer, but you can't use it for any bank or credit card transaction or government website because it's not SECURE."

It is already like this for mobile phones. If I install LineageOS on my Android phone, I will be unable to use various banking and payment apps. My bank's app won't run, their wallet app won't run, the mobile payment app used by nearly everyone won't run. I haven't tested it, but I'm pretty sure I would also be unable to use the official 2-factor authentication app that is used for just about every interaction with any public service and for 3D Secure authentication of card payments.

At least for the 2-factor part, accessibility requirements mean there are other options, including SMS one-time codes and physical cardboard code sheets, but I think it's a matter of time before those are phased out.

If you're not running an iPhone or Android phone with an officially sanctioned OS, you are a second-tier digital citizen at best.

This is the crux of the argument to me - if I own the device, why do some companies act like I am just renting it?

Depending upon what you mean by "sell", I can assure you that software sales are still happening. (Though it's probably better to describe it as selling a license for an indeterminate period. I also suspect the "indeterminate period" part will result in an increasing number of legal actions.)

Fundamentally, the repairs and sales are different things. A consumer knows whether they are making a purchase or renting when paying for a product. A consumer is much less likely to know what the extended support (i.e. out of warranty) options are, and they are subject to change as time goes on anyhow. This means that the market is less likely to accept a scenario where everything is rented and more likely to end up in a scenario where nothing is repairable.

That being said, I suspect the right to buy would become an issue if every vendor switched to rentals or subscriptions only.

The populace is under no particular obligation to allow the company to continue to go about doing business in the US. The populace of the EU and Canada and so forth likewise.

An act of such naked greed could trivially backfire.

EU already established that licensing software means selling it and comes with right to resale (usedsoft vs oracle)

Most cell phones are leased already today

No they're not. Leasing implies a limited, fixed term. Financing and leasing are two different transactions.

That is only untrue because owning the phone would be disadvantageous to them. It's vastly more advantageous for them if you own it and are obliged to pay them for it because you own both pieces if it breaks.

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