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Comment by endisneigh | Hacker News Reader

Spotify doesn’t have to be available on Apple devices at all. The competition you’re describing already exists no?

There’s a contradiction in these arguments. Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices, in which case the fee is a cost of doing business that ultimately benefits them, or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform.

It’s the same thing with the food delivery apps and other food apps. There are literally thousands of platforms like this. People should just leave if they don’t like the rules.

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So Apple is forcing its customers to bundle their phone with their billing platform.

Which should be illegal (as we democratically decided to have these laws), having no choice in services is not a feature it's an additional price to pay for the product and customers legally didn't agree to that simply by buying a commodity phone (no contract, no consideration whatsoever for this additional price).

> People should just leave if they don’t like the rules. This is correct, Apple should just get out if they don't like the anti-trust rules of our market.

I’m curious - In the EU are businesses required by law to accept whatever form of payment the customer would like to use? Are vendors required?

No, you can't pay with any currency like Zimbabwean dollars and expect the EU to force businesses to accept it, no.

But this article isn't about legal tender or how debts can be repaid it's about anti-trust and coupling commodities (like bread, and phones) with exclusive services without a service contract at the moment of purchase.

Apple devices and services don't have to be available in Europe at all. Either Apple benefits from Europe, in which case they need to follow European rules and regulations, or they don't benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the EU.

I agree completely. I look forward to seeing rules in the EU that ban percentage based fees and make all platforms open.

it might just end in them not being allowed to reject apps for advertising alternate payment methods

Actually, yes, Spotify does have to be available on iOS devices if Spotify chooses to. Apple will be slapped with aggressive enforcement action if they pull something like that.

Apple isn't a deity.

This is so utterly bonkers.

You're essentially saying if a crisp manufacturer wanted to sell in Asda, but Asda didn't want to sell them, Asda could be slapped with enforcement action for not selling the crisps?

If Asda is the only shop for half of the population, then yes. Especially if Asda had their own crisps and don't allow anyone else to sell theirs.

What? According to what rule is Spotify entitled a presence on Apple devices?

That would be a huge breach of anti-monopoly laws - you are abusing dominant position in the market to fuck over your competition (on the music streaming market).

According to rules made by the EU presumably.

> Either Spotify benefits from Apple devices [...] or they don’t benefit from the arrangement in which case they leave the platform.

Apple benefits from our society, and they've gamed their way into a Al Capone / Suez Canal / golden goose scenario. They've locked up everything under their control because they managed to weasel themselves into controlling 50% of the mobile phone market. This was, in retrospect, an illegal move.

Either Apple benefits from government-sanctioned commerce, or they don't. They can easily be broken up or fined into oblivion. The industry will move on regardless of what happens to Apple.

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