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Comment by nathanaldensr | Hacker News Reader

Interesting to see Stardew Valley appear on HN. I never thought I'd see the day!

I'm writing a min-max guide for it: https://github.com/nathan-alden-sr/stardew-valley/tree/maste...

It's been an occasional topic throughout the years [0], with the most popular thread [1] 3 years ago (320 votes/120 comments) on a GQ profile titled "How One Man Made the Indie Video Game Sensation Stardew Valley" (which is one of the ideal contexts I'd hope to see Stardew Valley discussed on HN)

[0] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=stardew+valley

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18095246

edit: Since you're trying to write a min/max guide, maybe this past HN thread on "Building a command line tool to design a farm layout in Stardew Valley" will be of interest:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22430366

Is it just me or does the concept of min-maxing a game like Stardew Valley seem incredibly perverse to everyone else too?

Depends on how you look at min-maxing. My approach to min-maxing Stardew is minimal effort, maximum value on the farm. I don't want to spend most of my day every day on the farm feeding animals and watering plants.

So I try to plant the stuff that produces the most value and get sprinklers and stuff early on. That way I have more time to do the stuff I enjoy more in the game, adventuring in the mines and fishing.

If you're trying to wring every possible dollar out of every minute of game time, I don't view that as min-maxing. It's just plain maxing.

But I suppose that's really just quibbling over definitions.

Technically they're both min/maxing, you're just optimizing for profit/effort vs profit.

I think the beauty of a game like Stardew Valley is that many people with many different styles of play are able to find enjoyment in it. Some people really enjoy min-maxing. Why do you find that perverse?

The game starts with the player character stuck in a grey cubical and escaping to a small farming community of fantasy-level quaintness and rural charm. How is treating the game like an algorithm to optimize not perverse?

People just play games differently. I like to keep the wiki open, but not go to lengths to min-max. My brother likes to min-max and be efficient as possible.

The beauty of games is that they allow different playstyles. I will say that Stardew tends to push towards min-max because time moves so fast. That's how I felt, anyway. Playing with a mod to slow down time about 25-30% made the game much less stressful.

I think you misunderstand my intent. It is not to say that there is anything wrong, per-se, with playing a game in a manner that is wholly contrary to its themes. However, that is, by definition, perverse.

I think you might be looking for the word "ludonarrative dissonance"

"Ludonarrative dissonance is the conflict between a video game's narrative told through the story and the narrative told through the gameplay."

examples:

- Cyberpunk 2077 - Your character is dying of a virus and needs to quickly find a cure. Meanwhile youre doing a whole bunch of side quests that take a lot of in game time.

- Any RPG - Characters can be endlessly revived using items but die permanently in cut scenes.

- GTA4 - Main character is trying to leave their violent past behind them. Meanwhile you can blow people up with an rpg.

"However, that is, by definition, perverse."

I don't think that's by definition wrong for stardew valley. That's your interpretation based on the intro. The developer might not find it perverse to play that way at all.

Explaining irony is so meta.

At some point the game should recognize what you're doing and just fire up Factorio for you.

Though realistically if you think about it Stardew Valley (and other Harvest Moon-type games) themselves are about min-maxing, where you do X to get used to how X is annoying so you can get Y so you don't have to do X anymore.

I've also played Factorio extensively. The two games are very different, even when played with similar playstyles or goals. Don't worry, I did the whole "build a factory as efficiently as possible" thing back in the 0.17 era.

Is it really that perverse?

The character shifts from economic drudgery to manual drudgery. The objectives of the game encourage time min-maxing. It's all pretty within expectations.

Eventually you can enslave the spirits of the valley to be your agricultural helots and pick your strawberries for you.

I played many times with my family as casually as one can. I only recently picked up the game again after the 1.5 update. I decided to throw an extra challenge on top.

I think you might be looking for reasons to get upset about something. There are certainly far more perverse things in the world than people min-maxing a video game.

Not necessarily perverse but the irony is not lost on me. It’s the Joja-playthrough, where you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

I don't see it in this way. Pierre (which is the owner of the local general store) is by no means a pure character- he will take credit for produce that you sell him and will generally sell with a very high margin compared to how much he paid you.

Now... are you the villain if the junimos are the ones doing all the work and you just reap the benefits?

I feel the same way. Best to go at your own pace and relax in this calm world. Don't worry about being optimal. The subreddit for Stardew seems to like min/max playing and to each their own.

There are probably a few like you - but what if there are those of us who find the challenge of optimization itself satisfying?

At least you had enough tact to not accuse people of doing it wrong :p

People enjoy the content they want, in the way they want. You like to enjoy Stardew a way that is different than OP. Neither is "incredibly perverse".

Nice! I will have fun reading through that. If you are a fan of SV then Dangerously Funny is a great YouTuber with some amusing Stardew Valley content - highly recommend; especially the videos where he bends the other inhabitants to his will :)

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