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Comment by jjjeii3 | Hacker News Reader

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country.

The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany.

So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the technologies etc if you will only earn 15% more money than a cleaning guy without any education and who can spend all his free time with friends instead of improving qualification?

So Germany is a failed state for software developers.

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100% agree. unless you get a fully remote job, you need to really really love germany to stay there as a software developer. A friend of mine topped out at 90k with 10y experience working in a bank (which tradtionally already pay higher salaries) and that is a number for which I could find exactly zero skilled developers here in California. It would be perceived as a borderline insult. And no, that money isn't eaten by healthcare. I paid far more for healthcare for my family in Germany than I do here in the US.

> Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country.

It's hilarious to me that most people in European countries will think this about their own country. I should know, as a Belgian having lived in Sweden with friends all over.

A 40% overall tax rate is among the highest, but about the same level as Belgium or Denmark as far as I understand. 4900€ gross as an average definitely isn't bad, though - that would probably be more like 3500€ here.

As to your conclusion of a "failed state": am I correct in assuming that like in Belgium, France, Holland and to a minor degree Sweden, the valuation of management types is much higher than any technical functions (i.e. engineers, programmers, devops) in Germany?

maybe don't "spend a lot of time for study, learning all the technologies etc" just to be financially better than someone. If you like your job and it pays enough what is wrong? You like to live in a society when there are people (the cleaning guys) who don't make enough and have to feel inferior for their job?

AND, these day jobs are fluid, just because someone works a mundane job does not mean that's their only job/contribution to society. In fact, the fact that they work a low demand job can enables them to be more entrepreneurial/creative/commit to their community/family, as opposed to some devs who spend every awaking moment perfecting their craft, only to use that skill to help some corporate sell people things they don't need.

AND, you're paying taxes for all the social services/safety net you're entitled, so you don't have to live in constant fear and save like crazy like people from Ukraine or Asia where I'm from.

Combine all of that with a major housing crisis that makes it hard to find a good apartment...and if you're in Berlin, the locals resenting you for the gentrification...I'm really puzzled why so many of my friends have left the States to go work there.

It's not great but that kind of salary is still higher than most of western Europe. Young software engineers in France or Spain don't earn as much.

> Young software engineers in France or Spain don't earn as much.

Central European companies seem to outsource so much development work to Barcelona. You'd think that salaries would start increasing there by now.

I can only talk about Hungary. SWE salaries doubled in the past couple of years. Entry level job salaries went from around 1000 EUR to 2000 EUR, but they are way less than in Germany

My bad. I sorta cheated saying Central Europe when really my familiarity is limited to Germany/Sweden/Denmark.

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