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>people just didn't want to get hired and do small works off the books instead because life was just better like that.

The blue collar industries have issues hiring junior people for exactly this reason in many of the HCOL parts of the US. Nobody in their right mind wants to suffer through a couple years as a lube and tire tech when you can work when you can get paid more fixing people's cars under the table.

Sounds like the issue is that the "blue collar industries" employers need to offer higher salaries?

I'm sure their customers will completely understand, pay the higher costs without complaint, and not at all go and find alternative suppliers.

The alternative suppliers that don't have any employees?

Not necessarily in the same country.

You aren't going to be able to outsource auto maintenance to the next county, much less another country.

(The comment I originally replied to specifically referenced "lube and tire tech" as a role companies have trouble hiring for)

It's not like there's one lube and tyre company in the country, or that they don't compete with each other.

I think I misunderstood your comment

>> Sounds like the issue is that the "blue collar industries" employers need to offer higher salaries?

> I'm sure their customers will completely understand, pay the higher costs without complaint, and not at all go and find alternative suppliers.

The real issue may be that the investors won't understand, and won't take reduced profits without complaint.

Why not call your retirement fund managers and let them know you really don't need _that_ much of a pension after all.

> Why not call your retirement fund managers and let them know you really don't need _that_ much of a pension after all.

I'll take the lower pension, will you pass on the message for me? For some reason, the fund managers won't take calls from individual participants.

I'm just noting there's multiple dials here, and it's weird that it's often totally forgotten that "less profits" is just as reasonable as "higher consumer prices." Also you'll note that there are some people who profit extraordinarily from capital and have extraordinary control, and there are some people who profit much less and have even less control than that (and have little choice but to participate in the system as it exists). It's a false equivalency to equate the two.

Isn't car maintenance the kind of business that's more likely to be an SMB or family-run rather than have investors?

There's brands like Firestone and Jiffy Lube although I thought everyone knew that was a scam by now.

Why would those establishments be scam?

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/how-jiffy-lube-got-a...

Too-high GDP seems to result in a de facto aristocracy which claws as much of the wealth as possible to themselves, an issue which becomes more intractable over time re: Piketty. At both the macro and micro scale, quality of life seems to peak at the upper middle class, where there's just enough wealth that the imperative to keep everyone happy takes precedence (vs the imperative to stay at the top or keep everyone from starving on either side).

I know that Italy isn't perfect, but the Italian-style post-Imperial "chill-out" seems to work well in a lot of ways. I'm an American with no Italian heritage, but I was born there and I think I might have imprinted a bit. I hope to go back someday.

> where there's just enough wealth that the imperative to keep everyone happy takes precedence (vs the imperative to stay at the top or keep everyone from starving on either side)

Maybe

> Eviction takes YEARS and it's just impossible in some situations (kids in the house), healthcare is free for all, personal debt is not as aggressive as here, unpaid debt is a nightmare to go afer.

That may be, for now, but the problems are real. For young people with degrees, wages are not comparable with those of Nothern Europe, and many end up living with their parents for years, in between poorly paid, insecure jobs. Besides, in Nothern Europe also, the social benefits and indeed the whole economy can deteriorate.

That is quite true, its is probably very difficult for a single person in Italy to go live on their own due to house prices. But as a culture, Italians might also not feel any need to leave home as soon as other people.

I live in a neighboring country, Malta, and we share some similarities. Because our country are two small islands, housing is very expensive. So we have a unique case where a lot of people live with their parents until they get married or are in a very very stable relationship/financially well. This makes us very dependant on our parents, but it is not as bad as people make it seem. Our parents can depend on us to help and we continue saving.

There isin't a lot that can be done. Moving to one of the Northern European countries will not solve the problems our Southern countries are having.

> But as a culture, Italians might also not feel any need to leave home as soon as other people.

I agree with your points. This familial habit is a blessing for Italians, given the direction their economy is taking. It is indeed another positive cultural value that, in this case, may even reinforce societal cohesion.