Comment by NotPavlovsDog | Hacker News Reader

Comment by NotPavlovsDog | Hacker News Reader

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I would appreciate an expansion on the "break into".

The approach I outline can explain and predict why the two Ts rotate, including at Toyota (Toyota going Taylor, or rather normative - rational).

I prefer not to base my experience on what Deming or anyone else wrote, but how their writing relates to real-life practice (though of course as a critic of Taylorism as represented by MBO and other Performance Evaluation rational schools, he is a welcome breath of fresh air).

Have you observed, preferably both as a participant and independent, Deming idealism in a functional real-life system? I have only seen a shift towards projectification and cultural hegemony.

What breaks the narrative is that the system is clearly not antagonistic. Giving the correct kind of autonomy to the workers increases every single item that management should care about, at least in a capitalist system. And both logic and evidence point that way.

> Have you observed, preferably both as a participant and independent, Deming idealism in a functional real-life system?

As a participant, never. As an independent, we are talking about the mentor of the movement that teached the Japanese management how to go from an industry that didn't produce anything good into the highly developed one that outcompeted everybody all ever the world.

> What breaks the narrative is that the system is clearly not antagonistic

So why the shift to Taylorism at Toyota, the heart of the Toyota system? Why the shift to projectification from life-long employment at Japan? How can one explain chronic injury if workers get to plan and improve the workflow (or are wasted humans not considered waste)?

And the Toyoda principles at the heart of Toyota predate Deming. (Ohno, Taiichi (March 1988), Just-In-Time For Today and Tomorrow, Productivity Press, ISBN 978-0-915299-20-1 )

The list of paradoxes can continue indefinitely, or one can elect to look for the root cause.

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