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Comment by taurath | Hacker News Reader

If not unions, some power structure must make for better working environments and conditions for people. It was once that someone working full time could afford a life. Amazon touts their $15 an hour like it’s something, but that’s lower than the industry average for warehouse workers. The quotas on warehouse workers and drivers are insane. Can’t wait for America to go back to having a real middle class.

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We need to be clear - 15 is 2x minimum wage.

And minimum wage affects everyone. So these politicos and others even here should probably do a bit more to help workers get the Amazon minimum before trashing Amazon?

The “egregious” conduct is a USPS mailbox? Kind of pathetic

It’s this weird world where Amazon is described as a hell hole and the three layer deep cleaning contractor workforce paying actual min wage and plenty of other crap jobs get a pass

Sorry, who's favorable to the amazon unionization push that is giving a pass to minimum wage three layer deep contractor workforces? This is not the argument anyone is making. They want better working conditions for everyone.

There is extremely good documentation on Amazon low-end workforce abusive practices. Not being able to take bathroom breaks as a driver or warehouse worker because the quota is set too high is a problem. Just having slightly higher than federal minimum wage does not solve those problems.

Working at amazon fulfillment centers IS a bit of a hell hole. The contractor workforces are also hellholes. Poverty in the US is a hell hole. Amazon should not be defended, they should be forced to treat workers with human dignity and respect, because clearly they nor their three layer deep cleaning contractor workforce peers will do it otherwise.

The way to help everyone is to raise the minimum wage - let’s do that. Let’s increase social safety net which helps everyone. Continue to expand Obamacare even. Consider basic universal income. Lots of ideas help far more than having a few companies unionize

All for it. Also workplace protections with teeth.

The minimum wage in itself doesn't help. [0] Real wage increase is needed.

Also tangentially related: https://stayathomemacro.substack.com/p/racism-skews-our-beli...

[0] "In the long-run, however, employers have far more flexibility. They can replace labor with capital. They can replace low-skilled workers with higher-skilled workers." - https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/07/minimally_convi.htm... (note, Caplan is a libertarian)

Where can I find this information about average warehouse worker pay? Also, Amazon suggests $15 per hour is their minimum pay. Is there any information about their average pay?

Here's the beaureu of labor statistics for "packers"

Warehousing and Storage Hourly mean wage -$16.05

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537064.htm

Amazon just increased their minimum pay to $15 in 2018 after being pressured. They are the countries second largest employer. The pay is not the only issue. Being at the lowest legal possible amount of protection. Multiple investigative books and stories have come out right around 2018 which Amazon replied by graciously increasing the wages and starting a marketing campaign to fight against the public opinion on working conditions.

And before someone says it, I don't have a vendetta against Amazon specifically. I believe we should fight for worker protections and actual living wages for anyone who works full time. Amazon could be a shining beacon, but their quotas and cost-cutting at any cost leads us to a lowest common denominator society while Bezos gains another 10 billion dollars a year.

For a larger look at the implications, this author goes over a lot of the systemic problems in a podcast synopsis:

https://www.csis.org/podcasts/truth-matter/alec-macgillis-fu...

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