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Comment by refenestrator | Hacker News Reader

Own goal. We lost the chip lead because of outsourcing national-security-critical fab capabilities, and now we're telling China "don't make the same mistake we did -- develop your own capability".

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China already knows this, and has known this for a long time, they didn't need recent US actions to remind them.

But I agree with your sentiment on the first point, what a huge strategic mistake.

china is not a hive mind, it does not exert the kind of iron grip over their private sector that westerners think. external stimuli like these could potentially have the effect of aligning the government's interests and the private sector's interests more closely

Creating semiconductor fabs takes billions of dollars in investment and can only be achieved by a few very large companies, most likely with government support and coordination in any country that builds them. While it is true that China has a private sector with its own set of interests, the Chinese government is already working very closely with relevant parties in this particular circumstance.

that's a good point, though i still think there's something to be said for the motivational effects of both parties now being pushed to do or die

Why do semiconductor fabs cost so much? Billions of dollars seems kind of overkill.

Its pretty much the cutting edge of engineering I'm told. TSMC is planning to invest like 20 billion this year alone to stay ahead of their mainland, south Korean and potential US rivals.

Still I wouldn't be surprised that TSMC will be gutted by the US and get their tech stolen just to prop up failing Intel. That pretty much what super powers do, US has planned this really well making sure key component are all made in the US. Like the needed materials and the light source ASML uses for their EUV device.

Didn't FinFET technology come through DARPA funding? Did TSMC steal that?

https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/how-the-fat...

I don't know if TSMC stole it, or just bought licensed it but Wikipedia says Chenming Hu was the Chief Technology Officer at TSMC from 2001 till 2004.

The 5nm TSMC Arizona fab is projected to cost $12B between 2021 and 2029.

https://www.eenewseurope.com/news/tsmc-confirms-5nm-fab-us

It kind of is a hive mind. Authoritarian governments can make swift, impactful decisions without much backlash or debate.

it's all relative, right? compared to us, sure. but while the government can exert direct control when necessary, they don't have the capacity and/or desire to do that 24/7. look at the public fracas with the ant ipo for example, my concept of a hive mind wouldn't allow for a conflict like that

What's the alternative, to keep providing them with the knowledge and material?

The alternative is to keep China’s supply lines integrated with the rest of the world and only using boycotts in very specific instances.

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