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Comment by omgwtfbbq | Hacker News Reader

>How different is that from at-will employment though? You can be fired at any time and for more or less any non-federally-protected reason (and can quit any time too). That seems pretty uncontroversial in the US at least.

Most Europeans would be horrified by this concept so I'm not sure it supports your argument.

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Whether or not you agree with at-will employment, almost nobody would agree your private employer is, in general, obligated to employ you.

So why would a service provider be obligated to continue to provide a service that you can profit from?

Another example: if you found a net profitable bet against the house at a casino, is the casino obligated to continue to offer that bet?

You started a wretched nationalistic flamewar and then perpetuated it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26742264 and don't do this again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26731595.

As a software engineer, I fully support at-will employment.

If I were say, a barista or a warehouse worker (any job that is low-skill relative to white-collar careers and easily replaceable) I would disagree.

I’m not sure why Americans care? Europe makes a different, worse tradeoff.

I doubt they would agree. Money != everything.

Well, it’s not just money. By lowering the taxes and regulatory environment, you increase individual freedoms. That’s worth a lot to Americans.

> Most Europeans would be horrified by this concept

But they'd be really happy to earn the same level of income.

There are a few bubbles in the US,where people make way more than in Europe: SV, Some finance jobs on the Wall Street, maybe the oil industry. That's about it. Outside of those, it's more or less the same like in Europe, minus safety net and holiday. There are pros and cons on each side of the pond,no doubt, but in my opinion, the US is probably better suited for those with a very high income,while an average person is better off in Europe.

My company employs people in Europe, and across the US. The highest paid Europeans still make less than any of our associates in the midwest.

And we have unlimited vacation & sick time, so I'm not sure what advantage the 28 holiday thing is.

I completely agree that the U.S. is better suited for high income earners.

As always,it depends. I guess by mentioning midwest,you go with a notion that it's not a hcol area. The unlimited vacation & sick time probably also means a pretty decent white collar job.

It's difficult to compare with Europe,as one unit, as it's as varied as the US is. There are quite a few countries in Europe, where I'd happily take whatever your the associates are making at your firm and I'd have amazing,high quality life with very little to worry about. Alternatively, if I go to London,or Zurich, most salaries would feel like pocket change.

The other aspect,what in my opinion keeps tab on salaries in Europe, is the sheer volume of available quality candidates for jobs. There are tons of people with exceptional education. Not so long time ago, we used to have a running joke back home that why would anyone hire a cleaner without a masters degree?It also used to be a default option to only hire secretaries that only had double masters.

Advantage of 28 days is that company can't stop or fire you from using them. And will be punished for not allowing it.

Geez, I’m glad I live in a society where that’s not seen as necessary. I don’t need to invoke the power of the state to take a vacation.

You'd be surprised. For 99% of people such legislation is beneficial+ it came to be like that not without good reasons. Here,in the UK, I sometimes have to interact with our customers who can't get a few days off whenever they need and usually need to plan many months ahead, just because their employees can't organise work better. Imagine how much holiday these people would have,if such legislation is removed all together.

When speaking about SV tech salaries maybe. But for majority of people, most definitely not.

Even in the midwest, tech people earn a lot more in the US than in almost any European country. Sure, for the lower income levels it might be a different story, but I live in the HN bubble like everyone else here.

I don’t think that the people most affected by at-will employment necessarily earn more in the US

Just one a bit dated example I could find quickly. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-01-09/which-cou...

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