I don't understand this thought process. Java and Kotlin apps run just fine on Fuchsia (or so I have heard). Fuchsia is only relevant for lower layers of the stack. Notably device drivers.
> Some people have imagined that Fuchsia's destiny is to replace Android, and some of them believe that's because Android is tainted by Java and Google will want to sidestep.
Whether or not Fuchsia can or might run Java or Kotlin apps, as you talk about, is not what this scenario is about. The apocalyptic scenario some believed about Fuchsia was that it existed as an OS that didn't need Java. If it can host & run Java or Kotlin apps? That might have had to go, that might have had to be cut. But Fuchsia could have survived.
Fuchsia is independent of Java and Kotlin. To run a Zircon kernel, to run a Fuchsia OS required no Java technologies. One maybe could/can use Java to write apps (having trouble stablishing this premise), but Java is not a dependency for this OS. With Fuchsia, Google could have given up Java, if they had to. What you @CameronNemo are talking about- the ability to use Java and Kotlin to write Fuchia apps, if true[1], is something that could have been sacrificed without affecting the rest of Fuchsia. I'd also point out that Fuchsia does not advertise Java or Kotlin support[2], regardless of whatever you may have heard, but it was at least once rumored of, so I can sympathize.
This is 99.9998% a conspiracy theory & in my estimation you'd have to be daft to think Fuchsia was only an escape hatch (there's a ton of great technical work breaking from Linux & more in it), but the "Fuchsia is only to escape Java if we have to" scenario sketched was at least technically plausible & sound, checked out. It has no Java dependencies.
[1] https://9to5google.com/2018/11/09/fuchsia-friday-java-borrow...
And the backwards compatibility. One of the codebases I work on has loads of untouched 15 year old code that runs fine on Java 16. Good luck doing that in JS, Python, or really any other popular language besides C/C++
far far more so, leaping to javas defense doesn't feel related to what this thread has been about. the thread has been about strategy & tactics, about escaping with something if the legal situation did go bad.
and as I stated, it doesn't seem like Google's Fuchsia does support Java. it might have been an idle notion, a legacy Android compatibility layer, but Java does not seem to be part of the modern Fuchsia attempt. at all. from what I can find. whatever pluses Java has, it doesn't seem like it's relevant enough to warrant any modern Fuchsia support. and the legacy Android support seems dubious / maybe non existent.
again I think the "fuchsia was just an escape hatch if Google had to have a non java based os" folks are a bit whack. but it was also a legit thread. even post Oracle trial, a break from 15 years of legacy & an underlying >2x as old posix api, for a more security conscious premise, sounds great, long long overdue.
Java has upsides but I don't think this thread should have to suffer that radical change in discussion. it muddies what was being talked about.
Fuscia and Java are both Android and tech related, don't see the problem. And the previous comment about Fuscia is just as off topic as mine, if not moreso. Java is at the core of Android and Fuscia hasn't made it out of the lab
Also this never made sense, if Google really wanted to go down that path, they could have already replaced Android with ChromeOS for quite some time now.
ChromeOS is only partly their platform. They don't really maintain control over it. Because, like the iphone 1, it's web. It's a shared platform.
Also, why just escape Java when you can escape the GPL Linux kernel too!! Bonus!
Fuchsia OS really is an existential hedge, a fallback position unlike all else. I still am willing to guess though that it was argued & sold on it's technics. If anything, allowing good engineers a great attractive project: that's what it takes to attract & retain talent in the competitive tech world, giving some of your engineers really wild greenfield chances. Ideally in a highly visible manner. But a capabilities based OS free from Java, free from GPL: it's a good corporate-safe technically-strong starting point to "organize the world's information, make it accessible and useful" (yet secure).
Besides ChromeOS has its own specific APIs as well anyway.
We've explained again and again and again how the theory present is that Google needed an escape hatch from Java. The crude theory of Fuchsia being an escape hatch for Google, a way to get off Java, is at least true, in that it would help them get off Java. Which their most successful OS, Android, is extremely reliant upon.
Yes, underneath, Android uses Linux. Until recently it's been a fairly mangled, hacked up Linux, but allegedly Android keeps getting closer to being able to run on mainline Linux. But Android is not Linux. Android is Linux plus lots and lots and lots of subsystems: display & audio subsystems, all sorts of other stuff, endless apis & platform & device subsystems. A huge amount of them being written in Java. Google's #1 OS was extremely coupled to Java. This is in no way debateable? Spend a couple minutes doing the most cursory of investigations & you should see: Google was extremely tied to Java. Still are.
Just like they have been porting Android Runtime to Fuchsia during the last couple of years.
The sass is not appreciated. This entire thread has been quite frustrating. I feel like we are arguing past each other. I don't think this is a useful use of my time.
I think it has been useful. I'm sorry you are still unmoved. The situation seems clear to me, and quite heavily elaborated. I still don't see what your points are. There seems to be a fixation on Fuchsia as only a low level thing, but that's just Zircon, the smallest piece; Flutter & IPC & other subsystems make up a very different higher level system that is clearly attempting to be a new native app stack owned entirely by Google with licensing they control.