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Comment by dukeofdoom | Hacker News Reader

Wow, this seems like 4chan conspiracy theory becoming reality. Will the worm one turn out to be true too?

On a side note, what kind of idiot puts graphene in masks, when its so widely known that graphene is a carcinogen. How can this not be maliciously done.

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We had similar drama with masks distributed in Belgium. They contain nanoparticles of silver. The government gave an official recommendation to stop wearing them.

Original report: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/156628/c...

Follow-up recommendation: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/156876/b...

I'm still wearing mine because I don't go out often enough for it to matter (and when I do, I'm usually on a bicycle where it's not required to wear one). But what a fucked up story. I really thought this would be the end of it: anti-maskers "won", are set for life with an argument on a silver platter now. With actual silver.

Surprisingly, though, that didn't happen. People have been pretty chill about it.

Geez... I bought masks in the street market here in Rotterdam (Netherlands), and now I'm worried. Thankfully, I only wear them a few minutes a day, when I go to public closed spaces.

They're manufactured in China, where quality control can be low to non-existent. My best guess is that somehow the batches got contaminated in the factory.

The current admin in Canada has spent the majority of the pandemic failing to vet companies properly, so this is very unsurprisingly to me.

Masks being discussed were made in Canada:

> ..SNN200642 masks made by a Quebec-based manufacturer are being recalled..

> Radio-Canada has obtained documents showing Health Canada warned of the potential for "early pulmonary toxicity" from the SNN200642 masks which are made in China and sold and distributed by Métallifer, a Quebec-based manufacturer.

The article says that they are made in China, the company is based in Quebec.

It's not a question of quality control.

The masks were advertised as containing graphene. It was supposedly used for filtration.

I wonder if the Quebec government tested the masks for things like this? Especially, considering:

> Back in December, the Quebec government revealed that masks it had been distributing for months to more than 15,000 daycares across the province did not meet safety standards, and daycare staff were ordered to stop using them.

> Between May and November, the ministry distributed 31.1 million MC9501 masks throughout the network to protect staff from COVID-19, but they were determined to be unfit for use.

Fool me once...

What should they have tested for besides graphene? Is there some list of contaminants which you feel would be a minimum requirement for their testing, which includes graphene?

Moreover do you know what kinds of tests they actually did perform? Without knowing that, how can you judge whether the level of testing was adequate or not? Have you looked into the rate of contaminants being found on their competitors products? Etc.

You are right, I was quick to judge without knowing. Thanks.

Agree, with the caveat that specific testing for graphene is actually not trivial (it is fundamentally carbon). But functional safety testing, supplier surveys, etc can be put in place to catch this sort of issue upstream.

It's really not an issue of testing.

It's much worse - it's written on the box that there is graphene in it.

Sounds like they bought first and then tested later. Not a bad strategy for equipment in short supply.

I was wondering if that will bubble over... it kinda looked like way too many videos were spreading on 4chan for it to be fake, but we'll see. Really odd with those videos and the "graphene strands" start wiggling - probably just graphene exposed to heat?

I expect things there to be faked. Anyone with credibility seen the videos care to comment?

When air moves around small fibers, they move. Look at literally any fibrous material under a microscope and you'll see this -- it's really cool to see exactly how small individual fibers in a thread are!

Yeah but the videos are more than just "air" - they don't move until applied moisture/heat then they move on their own without more. Kind of like those Japanese dishes with little flakes on them?

Anyone with frizzy hair can conclusively tell you inert, dead material can change with moisture/heat.

You're doing a generalization without looking at the vid... why not look?

I did.

As a kid, I had these: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Capsules-various-themes-package...

They moved, grew and changed shape when put in water, too. That doesn't make them alive.

Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGPfSSUlReM

A thin strand of material moving around when put in water is not at all surprising to me.

> They moved, grew and changed shape when put in water, too. That doesn't make them alive.

Or they were alive and part of a shadow operation to deploy an army of plasticky animals into homes.

So a cell isn't alive? It moves in a stream of water and other stuff(s). I guess not that surprising.

A cell is alive.

Some things move because they're alive. Some living things don't move. Some non-living things move, too.

Movement is not conclusive evidence of life. These videos - setting aside the legitimacy of 4chan for a moment - demonstrate "if you put the fiber in water, it moves", not "these fibers are alive".

Well, given that there exists no formal definition of life then that's just like, your opinion, man.

I say that in jest, but, it has merit. Any definition you try will be contested, even in academia.

Graphene is all the rage. The best thing since sliced bread (or, perhaps more accurately in this case, the best thing since radium water).

It sounds advanced and science, with Nobel prizes and stuff. I am not surprised it sells.

http://cml.harvard.edu/publicationposts/2019

https://www.modernatx.com/mrna-technology/mrna-platform-enab...

Not weird at all.

exactly. I have even seen a video where they found one on a test kit that you push all the way thru your nose.

I didn't know it was classified as a carcinogen, what are your sources on this?

There are some studies with carbon nanotubes and mesothelioma. Hard to say if graphene would have the same effect, but it seems plausible as CNTs are essentially graphene tubes.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(17)...

Cheap bulk methods for graphene production will also create other modifications of carbon such as nanotubes. So even if Graphene should be harmless, it might be impure and therefore dangerous.

> On a side note, what kind of idiot puts graphene in masks, when its so widely known that graphene is a carcinogen. How can this not be maliciously done.

It says it's made in China.

Ok, ill bite...What worm one?

Its not the one I've seen before. But here's two

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG4xyX-1MAc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJd4NBEFAkg

I also just read people are reporting them on the test swabs. I literally just got a test lmao.

I'm sure this has a reasonable explanation though, right?

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ceejayoz

Any dead material with moisture or air exposed to it will cause it to move. Typical really!

I poke because, I mean of course we're considering those things. I am not trying to peddle conspiracy theories. I want to fundamentally know why; generalizations don't help here.

Yeah, I've honestly gotten to the point where I'm not surprised by anything anymore and can't tell truth from fiction.

Another fun one is the use of Ethylene Oxide to sterilize the swabs. It is a carcinogen but it seems like it's is used in many places.

It was just funny that I stumbled on the ethylene and worm thing _after_ I got my test today.

It's absurd really. Thankfully I'm hearing others with similar introspections. I was feeling quite crazy. Maybe we'll come out of this okay by being curious.

Yeah I like to remain optimistic, IMO that is the only way to stay sane.

It's just funny how total opposite realities can coexist. I get a NYT daily email which makes it sound like everything is okay, vaccines are working great, etc, then I can spend 10 minutes reading `/r/conspiracy` and it really throws you upside down. Not to say that everything said there is true (I know most of it is likely bs), but I enjoy seeing the total opposites ends of the spectrum.

This is quite literally the myth involving ham or pork and soda pop. Of course in that case the "worms" were just the fat moving and solidifying from the carbonation. This time it is someone, apparently for the first time, discovering that wickable* fibers found in masks tend to move about when liquid is absorbing into or evaporating from them. Of course these fibers are in a lot of other places, including your winter clothing and anything else absorbent you might happen to wear.

Someone in another response pointed out the Japanese dishes with dry bonito flakes that move around in animate style when subjected to steam. It's exactly the same thing.

* Wickable might not be a real word. I mean "able to wick" as any absorbant fiber can.

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