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Comment by gaoshan | Hacker News Reader

From what I have seen VW had a sort of genuine reckoning with the whole diesel issue. They have reinvented themselves, shed cruft, cut all fuel vehicle development and completely devoted themselves to an electric future (vehicles, batteries, chargers). They have turned things around wholesale and are now producing amazing, relatively affordable electric vehicles (their new id.4 SUV will debut in the US for just a little more than a tricked out Honda CR-V, once you factor in the federal tax credit).

I was excited by Tesla but they remained expensive. Now feel like VW will have a chance to bring electric vehicles to a much larger group of people... a group I fit into and I can't wait.

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So can I now go into a VW / Audi dealer in North America and buy an EV off a lot?

Because every time I look (and I've looked constantly since I traded my Jetta TDI for cash in dieselgate) I still can't. And they are issuing a new press release every few months promising mass production EVs next year.

Back in 2017/2018 when this all went down they actually removed all electrified cars from their lineup. Stopped making new Audi A3 e-Trons, removed the hybrid Jetta from their lineup, and only made about 500 outdated (several year old design) eGolfs with a small battery for all of the Canadian market with a year and a half waiting list to get in one. All the while trumpeting how committed they were to electrification and how this was the future. So, I bought a GM EV instead.

And, yep, I just went to the local VW dealer's website and they have only one car with an electric motor in it, the 2019 eGolf with a 35kWh battery. That's it and I know exactly how it would go down if I were to call the dealer and ask to test drive one.

And last I looked the id.3 isn't coming to North America and the id.4 is a "maybe next year" kind of deal and the electric van they've been promising since about 2015 is now projected for 2023 when I recall in previous press releases talk about it coming out several years ago.

I'm sorry, they're greenwashing, they're desperate, and they're trying to milk as much out of the ICE while they can while playing a PR game. People trash GM's EV efforts as "compliance cars" but at least I can actually buy a Bolt.

> And last I looked the id.3 isn't coming to North America and the id.4 is a "maybe next year" kind of deal and the electric van they've been promising since about 2015 is now projected for 2023 when I recall in previous press releases talk about it coming out several years ago.

This is false, the ID4 is already being sold in US. ID3 is in fact not going to US.

What I've read is: very limited quantities for 2021. At least for us here in Canadia. I've seen this enough with VW to know that that means a few hundred almost all sent to Quebec (which has California-like EV quotas while other provinces don't).

This is basically my take too - dealers suck and will make this an uphill battle even if VW is being honest about their EV intentions.

GM has improved now, but when I looked at Volts it was similar (dealers knowing nothing, actively hostile to me trying to buy a car from them).

I have a Model 3 now and think its features are really not available in the competition at any price point, but especially sub 40k.

My Audi dealer has the e-tron.

It's going to take a lot more than going completely EV for me to for me to believe they have changed. Of course they went to EVs, it's the market. Of course they changed course, they were dealing with one of their worst scandals of all time. Of course they say they've changed, but how can we really trust them anymore?

Given where they are today would they need to do to cause you to believe they have changed?

If they ran a campaign of donating to environmental protection charities, carbon capture, or some other means of protecting the planet, with a value equal to that of the money of the revenue of their diesel cheating vehicles sales, I would say they have changed.

Until then, I still think they are doing what they do for the sake of profit.

If they did what you suggest, wouldn't you also conclude that they are doing it for the sake of (future) profit?

I would, but also, if they can rectify the damage they have done, then it becomes easier to forgive. I understand all companies seek profit and need to. I'm not against that, but I am against doing it illegally while harming our health and environment.

They are always doing what they do for the sake of profit, it's just that being profitable is harder when the planet is fucking on fire.[1][2]

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/triple-bottom-line.asp

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E

A full blown social media crucifixion and cancellation to appease the frothing masses. Then [user] can reap the feel good vibes of knowing that even though they missed out on the Summer of Love, they were there when VW got served.

Good grief, no one believes in contrition anymore. No one even believes in the past or the future. They were always this way, they're this way now, and they always will be! There are no mistakes, only lapses that expose your "true" eternal character.

Despite all the focus on Tesla, companies that makes a minimal, good and inexpensive electric car/truck will win big as far as I'm concerned. Bonus points for an iconic look.

Both of those are hard. A big powerful sedan is the best case for electric. You get the big power for free, and you don't end up that heavier or more expensive than a powerful gasoline drivetrain.

Small low power cars and trucks that need to be able to tow are the worst case. Giving up the big power doesn't really save you any mass or cost, and trucks need a bigger gas "tank". But perhaps if the tabless and structural battery thing works out, it will get us to both of those cases.

Base model ID.4 SUV for approximately $33,000 (price taking US government tax break into account. $39,995-$7,500) is getting very close to that. A mid-20's priced EV would be amazing but low 30's is starting to get within range of a lot of people (and it ends up being nearly $10,000 less than nearest competitor Tesla's Model Y... best price I could find was $41,290... which sadly no longer qualifies for the same tax break. If it did I would probably say the Tesla is a better deal).

Here's the EV that is outselling Tesla in China. Priced at US$5k: https://thedriven.io/2021/03/01/wuling-mini-outsells-tesla-m...

Maybe not iconic, however.

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