The lawyer who took on Chevron – and now marks his 600th day under house arrest
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelkrauss/2018/09/16/justic...
This is the part that does it for me. If Chevron participated in the destruction of their environment then Chevron should have to compensate them. Even if the law says they were allowed to it should be the type of thing that’s not tolerated. You can’t give someone permission to murder you and I think it should be the same for the environment. A government or land owner shouldn’t be able to give the ok for environmental destruction and everyone who’s involved should be liable.
Edit: Oh, surprise. Nobody is interested in a serious discussion centered on lowering global population.
In order to save the planet this way (the only sustainable way, IMO), standards of living in Western nations will need to decline for at least a couple of decades. After population stabilizes, standards of living can rise again.
Anyone who has family members under 40 should be onboard with this plan, unless they prefer that their relatives' retirement plan be "die in the coming resource wars 30-50 years from now."
That all sounds good to me and I think the vast majority would be on board with that. However, it's kind of odd to frame those ideas under the guise of "reducing population".
Very few people talk about the need to actively reduce the global population because it's not something that needs to be talked about - plummeting fertility and replacement rates are going to accomplish the same thing much quicker and the actions you are proposing are already something people care about. By talking about lowering the global population you just risk getting lumped in with a mostly pro-eugenics or antinatalism crowd (which I'm not saying is fair, it's just how it is).
There's a ton of more optically favorable angles from which you can advocate for those changes.
As for allowing it to happen gradually, if you look at global population growth estimates, things aren't really expected to even level off until around 2100 at about 10 billion people, give or take. That's far too late if we continue on our current course, and having ~30% more people on the planet, all other things being equal, just makes it 30% harder to stop the death spiral we're locked into. Global societal collapse is probably going to happen 20 years before that, but, even if not, continuing to put more humans on the planet for the next 80 years consuming resources is going to make reversing the trajectory towards collapse that much harder.
And, while this line of thought is certainly not pro-eugenics (I don't want to pick and choose which people end up being born), it is explicitly antinatalist to a point. The point is that there just ain't room on this planet for 10 billion of us. And, the reasoning is exactly the opposite that traditional antinatalists use. It's more that human life and human civilization are worth preserving, rather than "humans don't consent to being born," and "all life is suffering."
But, back to the real point, which is why reducing population makes sense at all, the problem we have is that we're just consuming too much of the Earth's bounty every year, and it's not sustainable. Technological progress can help here, and I expect it will be a part of the solution, even though we're not really committed as a planet toward using technology to reduce consumption. But, technological progress aside, the simplest and easiest way to reduce consumption is to just have fewer people consuming.
That is it. That's the argument, that's the plan, and that's really the only semi-realistic way forward that I can see.
Now, about most people being in favor of such a program, the issue is the bit I mentioned about Western standards of living needing to decline for a few decades. People are in favor of a lot of stuff, as long as they don't have to sacrifice for it. Nobody in the West really wants their standard of living to decline, and few seem on board with agreeing to it for the sake of the future. This is why I think we're actually doomed, to be honest, and this is the part I fully and wholly blame capitalism for, but I'd love to see myself proven wrong by the time I die.
Edit: Over the coming 50 years, the "boomers" are on their way out. This might already be enough to relax the overpopulation issue in the West. But if fertility continues to drop, there will be huge issues with ageing populations.
Edit: Oh, I see we'd rather just make this argument go away rather than address it, still. This is why we can't have nice things, y'all.
Probably more than that we can't sustain population growth like we have over the last century. Blaming capitalism is easy, but the more nuanced, difficult, and important conversation about population still languishes as taboo.
And that's a problem how? Fuck taboos when the continuation of global civilization depends on it. It's not like we've got another planet to fuck off to after we use this one up.
Edit: Oh, and there's a conspiracy theory that floats around white supremacy groups:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theo...
I hardly think white people will go extinct, but that might be a concern for some people in the western world.
The best way I've encountered to reduce population growth is actually to empower women, particularly in the developing world or for poorer populations. Having better education and employment opportunities for women strongly correlates with fewer children (and of course those children will be vastly better off, as will national GDP with a better skilled labour pool)... but even this idea could be seen as 'imperialist' or 'colonialist' if such an agenda is driven by the western world, even if it's feminist and environmentalist at heart.
I actually posted the same thing about empowering women in another comment here. Call me imperialist if you want while I help save the planet. I don't mind.
Not sure why you're projecting your resentment towards me given them I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint. <rant>But moreover, such a tone can be hurtful to your message. Even if their interlocutor is right, people loathe condescension, and it can often galvanize them into their cherished bad ideas. Not everyone is acting in bad faith. Understand peoples' motivations and fears, and then you might have a path to persuade them you have the better idea. But also learn where you might be wrong, or where the subject is more complicated and nuanced than you've conceived it to be.</rant>
If anyone else comes up with a better and more workable idea to save the planet and stave off global societal collapse, I'm all ears. No arrogance here, and no condescension intended.
Consider, for instance, the unrelated case of Judge William H Coward, who ordered a man in contempt to write an apology to the court, post it on social media, and delete negative comments — running roughshod over what ought to have been his First Amendment rights: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/a...
How do you handle people not complying with a court order like handing over evidence, paying fines, etc.?
So create a statute that outlines such offences. Charge people if they break it. Put it through the normal trial process. At a very minimum, the judge alleging contempt should not be the judge to try the matter. It might be appropriate to leave a curtailed power of contempt, so that judges can act quickly when they hear someone has bought a paper shredder. But I really don't think it's appropriate that a single judge can decide to have someone imprisoned potentially indefinitely without a proper trial governed by the normal procedures.
Still, in the USA for example, the Supreme Court has ruled that contempt is a privilege of the courts. It is not subject to such things as the right to trial by jury. A person can, in actual practice, end up in prison for decades without ever having been charged with a crime or having gone before a jury: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/12contempt.html
I'm more familiar with it here in Canada, though it's my understanding the basic concept is the same in many US states still. It is the last vestige of true common law. Which is really quite an unusual situation. Authority is derived directly from the head of state through the judicial branch. While laws that the legislature has passed, like the constitution, do restrict the courts, they pretty much otherwise make it up as they go. In the sense of how the old common law system always worked.
When the logging companies vs. environmental activist issue in British Columbia was very hot a couple decades ago, a whole stream of injunctions got issued and some case law had to be spun up real quick on people willfully and publicly defying injunctions. It was odd to read judges debating whether they should criminally sentence people for contempt in accordance to the Criminal Code's general sentencing provisions or not. After all, they don't have to, as statute doesn't require them to. In one case on appeal, the BC Supreme Court decided it would be very prudent to adopt that as the standard used, and so that's now precedent at least.
This case is a perfect example. All he has to do to be freed of house arrest is turn over his devices. He has this objection about attorney client privilege, which he may prevail on (though it doesn't seem likely). But he or his client could always seek later judicial remedy in the unlikely event that that privilege is violated as a result of Chevron's searching for evidence related to this case.
It's also worth noting the protracted nature of his confinement is partly due to a lot of legal wrangling that's been going on, not all of it on the side of the court. For example, the trial was scheduled to occur in September last year, but Donziger's lawyer asked that it be postponed because they didn't want to have it virtually.
Given the state of things these days, it ought to be illegal not to show contempt for the legal system.
A case of evidentiary fraud to dismiss that in it entirety? How that works?
Man A killed man B, caught on camera, red handed, with wittnesses. Man B's family pays off a wittness to testify, but get caught. Man A claims fraud, racketeering, that the whole case is "tainted," and throw it to the garbage bin. A zealously officious judge then happily complies using every technicality imaginable to cancel an overarching issue.
You provided the source in your comment here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26616258
I think you can let people decide the narrative for themselves. The stakes were high on both sides, along with the motivation to distort the outcome, but also this was a time long before PR-blowback was even a consideration by big oil. It seems foolish to think that Chevron put the resources into mitigating environmental damage in some poor country for their oil projects in the 70s/80s. They only factor this in now because of the PR and local political implications.
No one is claiming they did as I'm reading it. They did however pay $40 million to fix some damage in 1995 and were granted indemnity by the Ecuador government in return. Other environmental damage was found but it likely happened after Chevron was no longer involved in the project. Together that means they're off the hook legally.
If you're referring to the findings in the case of Chevron vs Donziger[0], Donziger claims that Chevron and the judge colluded. The claim is likely difficult to prove, but when you consider the billions at stake, Chevron have a strong motivation here to dissuade future activist work.
> They did however pay $40 million to fix some damage in 1995 and were granted indemnity by the Ecuador government in return.
Yes, but did that remediation include the the extensive damage to surrounding forests? And the poisoning of 100s/1000s of indigenous people? Cancers, malformed children, ruined water supply, etc.? The class action of the people impacted was warranted, if you've taken the time to look at some of the video. It could be that domestically based or other companies are partly responsible though.
[0] https://casetext.com/case/chevron-corp-v-donziger-28
Edit: Attracting inexplicable downvotes on my threads here, including this one which was basically asking for a source. Not sure why someone would downvote a comment like that unless they don't want people to dig deeper.
I'm hearing more and more very bad stuff from both sides of the aisle about the Federalist Society, in particular their judges. Especially when it comes to protecting big institutionally connected organizations.
Frontline on the disastrous effects of the Federalist society and Mitch McConnell.
Chevron Is Trying to Crush a Prominent Climate Lawyer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24124338 - Aug 2020 (19 comments)
Environmental lawyer who won a judgment against Chevron lost everything - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263996 - Feb 2020 (107 comments)