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Comment by jmfldn | Hacker News Reader

"Working from home. I realised being in an office - especially an open-plan office - was setting off my social anxiety all the time."

This! It's been such a game changer for me too. My career has been turbo charged over the last year. The change has been so dramatic that I won't switch to a company that doesnt have a remote-first policy. I'll forego money and promotion opportunities for it. The stress and anxiety reduction is more a personal thing but the freedom to choose, the fact that I'm not mandated to be at a particular place at a particular time, is such a revolution. It seems oppressive to not allow flexibility where the job allows. Most people I know seem to feel the same.

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I'd like to point out that as a manager, my stress and anxiety level have gone through the roof during this WFH period. As I was an IC for many years, I completely see your point but I'd like to point out the other side. I've talked to several other managers in my org, and I am not alone. Some part of it may be that older people (who are likely to be in management) are more likely to have kids (which led to untenable situations during school lockdowns).

Flexibility in producing the "right" work product is really key. In many large corporate environments, figuring out what is the right work product is possibly more work than the work itself. I have a feeling we may even see different models between different types of companies (nimble startups vs small companies vs large corps). In my personal org, what you are describing can be viewed as an engineer "phoning it in" .. as the engineer is depending on their manager or team lead to assign them the right work. An IC who phones it in may think they are a top producer but will get surprised when it comes to their career progression.

I have been a manager and manager-of-managers for quite a few years (many of which were WFH), and IC now. I'm curious about your statement that some might look at the behaviour describe above as "phoning it it"? I didn't see anything in their description that said anything about getting less done or putting less time in or not being available when needed. Maybe I'm misreading something.

I agree that remote management has very different challenges than remote IC - certainly you're likely to spend a lot more time talking with people so less-than-ideal WFH circumstances would be harder.

"I'd like to point out that as a manager, my stress and anxiety level have gone through the roof during this WFH period"

That's interesting for sure. I guess, as with so many things that happened during covid, the effects on people have been extremely varied. Sorry to hear that you've struggled as so many no doubt have.

The tricky part is going to be how to reconcile these different needs. A hybrid flexible approach is necessary but getting that right will take a lot of iteration.

My company isn't going fully remote, it's going to be a hybrid approach but with no mandate to come in on a given day. We are very strong when it comes to self-organising teams and autonomy so I think it will work. We don't really look to management for more than a high level steer, we all are expected to own our area to a high degree. Phoning it in wouldn't work therefore, it would be obvious to the team that someone was lagging. For other organisational styles this flexible approach could be challenging but it does seem to work for us at least.

Does this suggest that there is a trade-off between working conditions optimal for managers, and working conditions optimal for bottom-level employees? And that perhaps until 2020, the balance kept gradually shifting in favor of managers... offices replaced by cubicles, cubicles replaced by open spaces... until it became completely one-sided?

WFH suddenly gave many people their own office room again. It's 20 years since the last time I had that.

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