Comment by eternalban | Hacker News Reader

Comment by eternalban | Hacker News Reader

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I don't think it correct to equate Zikr with meditation. To wit, your "Nor is there a reason to for the layman interested in the relaxation of the mind" underlines that fact. Zikr (remembrance of God's names and attributes) is highly recommended to all Muslims in the Qur'an, officially rated at being higher than prayer. It's not about "mind hacking". It is closer to Zen's "oxherding" purpose.

> First off all, not by renouncing the world, but by being part of it.

What is the world to me? What am I to the world? Truly, the example of this world and myself is that of a rider who seeks shade under a tree, then he moves on and leaves it behind. - Prophet Muhammad

So there are the very subtle (but quite important) distinctions made by Muhammad (SAWS) here regarding the correct meaning of "detachment" and "world" and the mental and spiritual position of the 'Completed Human' regarding these matters. (Many in their misguided and mininformed zeal about "poverty" and "detachment" forget about that comforting "shade" he mentioned. "Seek shade under a tree". Mediate on that.)

> I don't think it correct to equate Zikr with meditation.

Maybe I am missing something, but Zikr sounds suspiciously like japa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japa), which is a well accepted form of concentration meditation in all Dharmic traditions. Many teachers will ask neophytes to have a regular japa practice, where you recite a mantra a certain number of times often with the help of a mAlA, first audibly, and gradually, mentally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japa#Degrees_of_loudness). The idea being that it's easier to focus on a gross object at first to keep your mind steady, and later proceed to more subtle forms. Patanjali himself recommends that Om be chanted and its meaning reflected upon (https://www.himalayanacademy.com/saivite-scriptures/patanjal...).

The forms of meditations in dharmic traditions is quite bewildering. Patanjali himself recommends to concentrate on anything that you are comfortable with (https://www.himalayanacademy.com/saivite-scriptures/patanjal...).

Zikr is “remembrance of God”. Typical “mantras” are specific names of God, as given by the Pir (elder) to the seeker/neophyte.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhikr

So of course, Zikr is a subset of general contemplation and given the universality of human body and psyche, you will find shared elements (such as seating, lowering & raising of head/gaze, and the big one, breathing) in various methodologies of contemplation across cultures, religions, and schools. This is to be expected and is natural.

In a sense, one could possibly say that Meditation aimed towards mastering the mind, whereas Zikr aims for breaking the imaginal boundary of lower self (i.e. aims for Unity of Selves harmonized by “Names”) by being fully focused and mindful of ‘The One’. Chanting Om is quite close to the effect.

Thanks. That was quite informative.

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