AZ tested every patient weekly for covid, regardless of self reported symptoms.
No other trial did this. Which means the 95% efficacy for phizer/moderna is not actually correct. we have no way of knowing how many were asymptomatic.
No other trial did this. Which means the 95% efficacy for phizer/moderna is not actually correct. we have no way of knowing how many were asymptomatic.
It is correct, it just efficacy against covid-19 disease, not against SARS-CoV-2 infection. Infection and disease are two distinct concepts.
There is no distinction between "disease" and "infection" in medicine. There is asymptomatic infection, mild, serious and fatal. Even then its not as clear cut as that.
We don't yet have clear data on asymptomatic infection for J&J, moderna, phizer or novavax.
I'm not suggesting that we stop jabbing people, quite the opposite. Even if AZ is less effective, roll it the fuck out. The quicker we get 60-70% of people immune, or partially immune, the quicker this shitshow will be over.
That's completely false. An infection is an invasion by a foreign pathogen, a disease is a set of observed symptoms[0].
For other examples of infection/disease distinctions, see HIV and AIDS.
Obviously there is a distinction, auto immune diseases/cancer/congenintal are the overwhelming example.
What I should have said is: that in this instance we are measuring infection. disease is marketing speak.
> There's a difference between infection and disease. Infection, often the first step, occurs when bacteria, viruses or other microbes that cause disease enter your body and begin to multiply. Disease occurs when the cells in your body are damaged — as a result of the infection — and signs and symptoms of an illness appear.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/infectious-di...
* Infection does not necessarily lead to disease. Infection occurs when viruses, bacteria, or other microbes enter your body and begin to multiply. Disease, which typically happens in a small proportion of infected people, occurs when the cells in your body are damaged as a result of infection, and signs and symptoms of an illness appear.*
"To test for asymptomatic infections, participants in COV002 in the UK were asked to provide a weekly self-administered nose and throat swab for NAAT testing from 1 week after first vaccination using kits provided by the UK Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC)."
With notes:
"In Brazil, there was no testing plan for asymptomatic infections. In South Africa, asymptomatic infections were detected from swabs obtained at study visits attended, but are not summarised here as there were only a small number of timepoints for detection of these cases."
And you can see results here [2], which includes both symptomatic and asymptomatic cases (if someone could confirm)?
From Pfizer study [3]:
"Confirmed Covid-19 was defined according to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) criteria as the presence of at least one of the following symptoms: fever, new or increased cough, new or increased shortness of breath, chills, new or increased muscle pain, new loss of taste or smell, sore throat, diarrhea, or vomiting, combined with a respiratory specimen obtained during the symptomatic period or within 4 days before or after it that was positive for SARS-CoV-2 by nucleic acid amplification–based testing, either at the central laboratory or at a local testing facility (using a protocol-defined acceptable test)."
And per their news release [4]:
"Data from this study, including longer term safety, comprehensive information on duration of protection, efficacy against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, and safety and immunogenicity in adolescents 12 to 15 years of age will be gathered in the months ahead."
[1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext#cesec100
[2] https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/snippets/astrazeneca-looks-us-data-and-next-gen-vaccine
[3] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
[4] https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-publication-results-landmarkI presume you already have a lot of antibodies after vaccination.
(After the intial trial phases had concluded Pfizer only reported how many symptomatic cases were prevented which might be the "95%" number you have in mind)
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765
Just curious, as I've received the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine.
Just look at the hospitalization and death rates for old people in the countries with high vaccination rates.
1) If it actually prevents detectable infection altogether, it's some evidence of preventing spread, sooner. (as I understand we have some of that evidence now that it's in wide use)
2) If there are long term effects of even asymptomatic cases, we'd have some reason to believe that those are mitigated as well.
For other classes of drugs, these same companies have been sued and fined for billions of dollars for covering up problems with their drugs.
The regulators are beyond incompetent, they're typically industry shills.
I mean, is this a serious question?
https://www.citizen.org/article/outrage-of-the-month-revolvi...
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/28/4956945...
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/fda-s-revolving-door...
It is such a weird stance, implying that it can never make sense for the FDA to change how they do things.
I’m advocating for higher standards, not lower. With regards to the COVID vaccine, we’ve decreased the quality and quantity of research performed over what we’ve done for previous vaccines.
It sounds like you’re saying that the research on these vaccines is better than before. Which is confusing because they have not obtained FDA Approval. If they had been tested to the same rigor as other vaccines, they would have received this Approval.
> implying that it can never make sense for the FDA to change how they do things.
Again, that’s not what I’m implying. I’m implying that we should change how they do things in only one direction- more safe. Long term research and vigorous testing.
Not rushed testing who’s new rules are dictated by industry-captured regulators.
Maybe someday.
That people don't bother to understand what they read is a problem of course.