Comment by wernercd | Hacker News Reader

Comment by wernercd | Hacker News Reader

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Linux doesn't have economics of scale, placement or subsidies... You're paying what Microsoft subsidizes to install windows, office, etc.

https://www.techjunkie.com/why-would-a-linux-laptop-be-more-...

> Bloatware Saves You Money > Because those companies who make those titles pay fees to have that software pre-installed on your new computer. They see that new desktop as a big billboard, waiting to be populated. And, boy do they load it up! > This Ubuntu installation doesn’t come with any bloatware, Dell isn’t making the kick-back, hence it increases cost.

> Other Costs > But, let’s not forget that these companies are USED to Windows. All of their internal processes are based around Windows systems. All their support personel are trained in Windows. > So, smaller supply and a dedicated demand equals higher cost. Basic economics. > Not to mention the additional cost of support staff for these laptops, who need to be trained in an entirely different environment

"This Ubuntu installation doesn’t come with any bloatware"

Actually sorry, this is not accurate. Canonical shipped Ubuntu with an Amazon search app, does plenty of telemetry, and forces updates. Unless you are very technically proficient it is very hard to disable all of it. (I remove or neutralize motd, appport, snapd, ubuntu-report, unattended-upgrades, ubuntu-advantage, whoopsie and more)

Ubuntu came with a controversial search lens that resulted in local searches returning web results from amazon that were supposed to be anonymized in 2012 and discontinued this stupid idea in 2014.

> does plenty of telemetry,

The telemetry that is sent on install does ask your permission to share and shares very innocuous data to boot

>The data includes information about your PC’s hardware, including the manufacturer, BIOS version, and the model of your CPU. It also includes information about your software, such as the version of Ubuntu you installed, your chosen desktop environment, whether you’re using the Xorg or Wayland display server, and the options you chose while installing Ubuntu. Other information, such as your time zone, information about your partitions, and your display’s resolution is also sent.

The other major source of leaks is the crash reporting tool which . Note that with open source software you don't have to trust the vendor you can actually see the source to the the tools that are communicating and convince yourself that they are serving legitimate needs that don't violate your privacy.

> forces updates

You can absolutely control updates of normal packages. Snap is indeed defective in that regard but nothing is forcing you to use it.

> Unless you are very technically proficient it is very hard to disable all of it

Packages are removable in band with the same tools used to manage all packages on the system. This isn't an example of extreme competence its basic understanding of the tools needed to use the system.

> motd

Not a data leak

> snap

a shitty tool but not one that harms your privacy or inherently does anything to you by existing just don't install snaps.

> ubuntu-report

This is the tool that reports basic info about your system after asking you once on initial install removing it... does nothing. If you don't want crash reporting its a checkbox in settings.

> ubuntu-advantage

This is something you have to sign up for having the package on your system isn't leaking your data

> Apport

This is disabled by default in stable releases. To disable sudo systemctl disable apport.service like every other service this is once again basic usage. It also doesn't leak your info without you allowing it even if enabled. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport

I think you should try this:

- set up a ubuntu system

- see what traffic it generates

- get it to stop

You will get pretty proficient at how apt and systemd work, especially after a couple release cycles and things get re-activated, re-enabled or re-installed.

> does plenty of telemetry

Oh wait until you see how much Windows does of it. Its always about how much.

Unattended upgrades is generally a good thing in my experience. It's quick and easy security patching. For Ubuntu, it's a bit more than that because they don't split the main and security repos, but on Debian it's one of my favourite features.

Part of why I prefer debian

But the point is that the linux laptop in GP's example was _cheaper_ (and my personal experience suggests this is a trend).

So assuming what you posted is true, why would companies offer a discount for the linux version?

Yes, it makes no sense. I would happily pay more for a laptop with linux support. Meaning that the vendor guarantees that throttling, hibernation and other tricky stuff work as intended. But nobody offers me this option.

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