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Comment by juusto | Hacker News Reader

The majority of my unpleasant experiences abroad were taxi related, regardless of the country.

-In SF got shouted at because I calculated wrong the tip

-Seoul a driver told me I owed him 10x what was agreed with other drivers joining in (scary)

-In Lisbon the famous "this restaurant is closed today I will take you to another one" (from what I understood they get commission) got me twice

-Barcelona the driver "hid" a high bill and told me I gave him 5€ bill instead (I showed him the receipt from the ATM where I just took the money before paying him since his machine "did not work")

Since ride sharing apps became a thing? Way fewer problems and a way for me to influence positively/negatively a ride.

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I remember back when I visited the US, and I took a taxi back to the airport. I asked how much it was upfront because I wanted to use up the last of my dollars.

I even remember telling him that this was the amount of cash I had up front, which was a little more than the quote and he was okay with it. That's how much i'd give him for the ride.

Only to get to the airport and have him getting cross because the amount I was going to give him wasn't going to cover some tip after I told him exactly how much I would be able to give him. A tip for a taxi? The American begging industry has to die.

Almost exact same happened to me: on my way home I agreed on a price, then as we arrived at the airport the taxi driver got mad (and asked if I was Russian :-).

I hadn't been so spesific though to point out that this was all dollars I had left.

It might be something that could be excused if it was applied slightly more evenly, like never knowing how much something's costs when you buy it because "taxes", even though that is the most dick move.

I can't imagine having a builder perform some tasks on my house, only for them to tell me afterwards that the price we agreed wasn't going to cover it because actually it's not enough to feed their family.

> The American begging industry has to die.

the sharing economy slave labor where people need 3 jobs just to pay the rent is part of that problem. minimum salaries (or the lack of) is what separates barbarian societies from civilized ones.

Somebody better let Denmark, Finland, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland know they are barbarian societies for want of a minimum wage!

Most of those, such as Denmark, Norway and Sweden, have very strong unions which essentially guarantee a minimum wage for everyone without legislation.

Denmark has a $16 per hour average minimum wage and Finland and Sweden has a collective bargaining rule, even if you are not a union member and it is illegal to do anything anti-union.

The person you responded to talked about minimum salaries which those places absolutely do have, even if they don't have a minimum wage.

The Scandinavian countries have de facto minimum wages because the unions have actual power there.

Yes because improving quality of life is as simple as legislating it. You really think those drivers wouldn't be out of a job for charging 3x?

No, not really. I would still have gone with the taxi if it was 15% more. I just would have known about it and come prepared, rather than being deceived.

This is what I hate about taxis: they expect you to haggle. I come from a culture where you pay the price on the label without any bullshit.

Haggling is fun! You should learn to enjoy it. What’s not acceptable is changing the terms after an agreement has been reached. A deals a deal, even with a dirty dealer.

In all those stories the drivers are preying on the weaknesses of the passengers. It’s like a bully berating someone at lunch in kindergarten. The answer is the same, you yell right back at them. Assuming you’re not stupid enough to pay up front you still hold the cards as you can refuse all payment as well.

Haggling is inefficient, tiresome and frankly demeaning for both parties.

You could say the same about picking up a stranger at a bar for sex but it’s still fun.

Uber really shines in countries with a culture of haggling and gouging tourists.

Landing in Cairo, step one was to buy a local sim and check the price for a ride into town. When the local taxi tout quoted me triple that price, I showed him the app and said I’d pay that. He pulled out a laminated card with his tourist rate printed on it explaining that this was the “official price” and that here was no way anybody could get a cheaper one.

50 feet further toward the exit, he tried pulling out a different laminated card, explaining that it contained the “old price”, which was now only double ubers price. So I hit the “go” button on the Uber.

He never went lower double Ubers price, and followed me all the way to my driver before giving up.

It’s the ultimate travel “screw remover”.

Even in countries without haggling cultures - in Ireland where taxis are strictly regulated and always have a meter, I several times have found myself forced to listen to the views of the driver, usually extremely racist/sexist/bigotted views, and as a frequent cyclist I've been nearly hit by taxis on many occasions, including one where I can only conclude the driver was intentionally trying to knock me off the bike. I pulled up next to him at the next light and told him through the open window that he nearly hit me, and he jumped out of the taxi and started pushing me and shouting at me (this happened in Dublin, of course). Crazy experience, now that I look back on it.

This kind of thing doesn't tend to happen with uber drivers, but it does seem that taxi driving attracts a certain type all over the world. Of course, I've had plenty of taxi rides with lovely friendly drivers too.

I wonder what kind of regional variations there are on that; where I'm from, the anecdotal impression I've gotten is that sexual harassment is more common from Uber drivers than from drivers for local taxi companies. My guess is that, at least where I'm from, Uber employment is more volatile than local taxis; an Uber driver is more easily fired, but the barrier for entry is lower, so significant damage can be done before a harassing driver is let go.

South France: taxis have a manipulated meter installed which they can alter the price via a button next to their leg or the gear stick. The route starts with normal meter speed and in the last 1 or 2 miles the prize often doubles or triples!! They will _always_ do this when picking up tourists from the airport. Or if they realize you don't know the system.

Being a taxi driver in Nice is like being part of an organized crime ring (petty crime for sure but still crime). It's "organized" because they even has/had lobbyists engaging in local politics.

Not sure if Uber actually fixed this problem in the region but I recall when the first Uber's started driving they would sometimes end up in physical fights with the taxi drivers who unlike Uber drivers were in radio contact with each other and happy to help fight an unruly customer (or competitor).

They're so convinced that they're entitled to this scam that reasoning with them is impossible. I ended up with an argument at 2 AM because the taxi driver refused to acknowledge that he was actually manipulating the meter. That was even after I showed him the wiring and the button with which he did it. I made the same trip many times so I knew the fare was ~€65 but certainly not €250 (!!).

From all the sh1tholes I've visited and been ripped off by taxi drivers in 5 decades on this planet nothing has ever come close to how blatant they go about it in the South of France. :chefs_kiss:

Yeah, ride sharing apps can be more safe if the alternatives in the market are not regulated properly. That is the case where I live (India) for rickshaws and to some extent, cab services.

> I several times have found myself forced to listen to the views of the driver, usually extremely racist/sexist/bigotted views

"if you say you're English these days, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail" ?

> if you say you're English these days, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail

What do you mean by this?

it's from a Stewart Lee bit that makes a similar point OP was making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZG-Ig3M7r4 (it's restricted outside of UK unfortunately)

an earlier variation of the same that talks about homosexuality / morality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

Both "Stewart Lee's Comedy vehicle" and his more recent "Content Provider" are excellent.

> taxi driving attracts a certain type

Or the stress of driving a taxi drives people insane.

Or those who drive a taxi have initially few percent of insane, and those who can’t stand it just leave. My experience (15 years everyday local taxi user) is that good people didn’t last long until uberlikes rushed into town and made it a “still hard but now regular” job with rules and feedback, for both drivers and clients. Before that, taxi was a grey market filled with pathetic excuse of a thug trying to expel the weak, do some easy money and tell their story. Not a single regret about these times and these imbeciles.

Reminds me of Costa Rica taking advantage of their tourists with high prices.

For example their main airport (SJO) blocks Uber access on their WiFi network by dropping packets and serving bad DNS records.

Normal tourists don't realize this is done in purpose, and they'll stand puzzled checking their phone screens unable to open Uber.

The official airport taxi price is three times more expensive than a normal taxi or Uber.

On the other hand, I’ve been in several ubers in nyc where the driver clearly had no idea how to get anywhere. When confronted with some closed streets for a planned parade, he got stuck in traffic and had no idea how to get out. I hopped out of the Uber, hailed a yellow cab, and sailed to my destination. Cheaper too.

Ended up using only yellow cabs since this was not an isolated incident. Taxis ended up saving us $3-5 on each ride over Uber and the drivers were not hopelessly dependent on google maps.

Taxis were usually ok but hoping you don’t randomly get screwed over or worse was a horrible kind of lottery. Isn’t there a particular circle of hell in Dante for those who betray trust placed in them? I remember in NYC pre Uber certain times of day they wouldn’t take you to the airport.

The other issue being, in most cities, the argument was made to have high taxi fares but for it to be illegal to refuse rides based on distance/destination.

But the bargain was never 2-way in practice, the high fares stayed but the refusals remained.

I guess this makes sense, who is going to attempt to force their taxi driver into something they don’t want to do at the start of the journey? Even knowing I’m in the right legally, I don’t really want to be driven anywhere by someone pissed off at me.

I think the issue goes somewhat deeper than this.

For example, in Paris, it was pretty common for taxi drivers to refuse to take you somewhere, even though there's a "starting fare", which is quite high, and you'd think that only that could make it worth their while. This would especially happen late at night, when public transport is basically non-existent.

But taxis aren't just any random person with a car willing to drive people around. For example there are all kinds of arrangements done for them, such as dedicated lanes or authorization to use bus lanes. They have dedicated parking spots all over the city, etc.

So if we, as the public in the city, make those concessions to them, I'd expect something in return. To me, they're a public service much in the same way the metro or the bus service. Sure, they cost a lot more, but that's because I can get them to come exactly where I am, when I want, and drop me exactly where I want to go. I'm not sure people would be so understanding if a bus driver refused to drive because he didn't feel like it / the weather was bad / it was too hot / etc.

That's the crux for me, too. The time you're most likely to be rejected for a ride is after going out drinking, which is also when your safety most depends on getting a ride.

in Paris, it was pretty common for taxi drivers to refuse to take you somewhere

In London taxi drivers are notorious for never wanting to venture south of the river, but that is a matter of personal safety, that they are a public service doesn’t give anyone the right to compel them to do something ill-advised.

Not familiar with south London but might not the real reason be that in a lower income area people won’t hire them for the ride back. NYC cabbies have to drive through dangerous areas as a matter of course and there are more guns there.

Ok but what other business do you have to be afraid to piss someone off by hiring them to do their job?

I agree, but it doesn’t change the personal risk calculation

one of my favorite stories is when i landed in saigon i took a taxi to my hotel. literally my first experience in the city. and the taxi driver didn’t give me the right change, he kept a bunch of money. so i’m yelling at him. he’s acting like he doesn’t speak english. it goes on so long the people im with check in to the hotel. i move up front to the drivers side door, with it open, standing between the door and the driver telling him he’s a fucking thief and the hotel people are trying to calm me down and tell me to call the taxi company. eventually he relents and gave me my money. it wasn’t about the money (VND to USD is cheap) i just did not want to let this guy fuck me as soon as i landed

Hey, I don’t blame you for being angry- but, and this is only an empathy exercise: where do you think that taxi driver is today? Right at this moment, even?

Could be ripping people off still, in jail, dead, retired or bootcamp grad working in sf.

Creating a sad story to explain motiviations shouldn't be an exercise one does in a situation like this.

Why is this relevant? Rules and laws are there for a reason. If society lets taxi drivers steal from people because they are taxi drivers, where do you draw the line for expected fair treatment of everyone? Do only rich people have the expectation of behaving correctly?

> Why is this relevant? Rules and laws are there for a reason.

I agree.

> If society lets taxi drivers steal from people because they are taxi drivers, where do you draw the line for expected fair treatment of everyone? Do only rich people have the expectation of behaving correctly?

I think this is where you missed the point. It’s an empathy exercise. Where do _you_ think that taxi driver is, right now? What do you think their home looks like? Are they pleased with having pulled one over on that foreigner fare?

Their actions don’t have to be morally correct or even morally justifiable to be understandable.

If you want to signal your magnanimous virtues to the world, do it on your own dime. Nobody should be shamed into feeling sorry for someone that defrauded them.

In jail, hopefully.

People should not be in jail because one person's recounting of an encounter with them makes them sound like a thief.

Whoosh.

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