Oh well, maybe in a few more years.
That seems to be a cultural point. For many people I see an EV is actually beneficial over a fossil fuel car: They don't have to go to the gas station ever. Saving that detour every now and then, but simply commute and do the groceries. Longer trips aren't done by car anyways. But that of course requires a garage with power, which many in the cities don't have ...
If there were charge points at my destination, I wouldn't think twice. Since there aren't and really aren't any along the way (maybe one or two chargers for either trip) range anxiety is real. For us, a gas car is a must but an electric will probably be our next "second" car. Of course, we may just forego the second car altogether and stick to one vehicle instead.
People who don't understand ICEs go "Worst of both worlds!!!! EV and ICE reliability problems!!!"
ICEs can be insanely efficient when operating at peak efficiency and incredibly reliable with low power demands
Volt maintenance was actually less involved than Tesla's with their required yearly service.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/volkswagen/id4/2022/2021-vol...
> As mentioned earlier, the rear-drive ID4 Pro model starts at $39,995, with the ID4 AWD Pro model checking in at $43,695 to start when it launches later next year. Both of those prices are before a potential federal tax credit of $7,500 is applied, however. There are just two options for the ID4 Pro at launch—a Statement Package and a Gradient Package.
Both the base Model Y and the ID.4 have about 80 miles less range than the Long Range Model Y which is the $50k one.
Charging time: ICE cars take about 5 to 10 minutes to detour to a fuelling station. Electric cars take about 5 to 10 seconds to plug in when you arrive at home.
Power-to-weight: Due to instant torque, most modern electric cars feel a lot faster than their numbers suggest. But sure, if you're in the market for an MX-5, pure electric isn't for you.
Cost: You care about power-to-weight so you're clearly not interested in economy cars. If you want high performance and good range, Tesla models tend to be excellent value relative to their 0–100 times. For most people, cost is still quite high, but this is a relatively short-term problem which will solve itself as manufacturing capacity scales up.
Range: Unlike ICE cars, you wake up every morning with a 'full' electric car. The latest models from VW, Tesla etc have ample range for most people. Unless you spend more than half your day on the road, this isn't a concern.
As if the tiny amount of additional tire wear is going to create as much pollution as burning petrol and keeping the engine lubricated with oil.
It takes me 10 seconds to charge on my way into the house so no stop at the gas station.
Range is better than the VW I used to drive, not as good as my Subaru so I'd call it a push. I haven't done any long trips where I really try to nurse the gas so it's hard to say exactly where it lands though.
At a supercharger station, it costs $20 to "Fill the tank", at home, it's half that. But I guess cheap as hell to run isn't in your metrics.
Against ICE, some ICE cars have longer range but it’s not any kind of issue as long as you are in the developed world since the charging networks are so great and only getting better.
The article says it gets 250 miles on a charge. To get 250 miles from an ICE car on $7.75 worth of gasoline, that ICE car would need to get 82.6 miles/gallon.
The EV should also require much less routine maintenance than an ICE car.
For a heck of a lot of people, fuel cost per mile and the amount and cost of routine maintenance are among the most important metrics.
Why? There are many CCS DC chargers in the world and the number is growing month-by-month. It's true that some areas aren't built out yet, but many areas already are and new chargers are going in all the time.
Try out some road trips with a VW ID.4 on A Better Routeplanner. See how you go:
Where I live in Europe all who own cars in the city have them street parked in front or around their apartment buildigs.
How will they all be charged if everyone would switch to electric?
Plaster all the streets or sidewalks with charging stations?
How will the existing power lines handle the extra strain? (Spoiler alert: they can't)
Who will pay for building and maintaining all this new charging infrastructure?
These are concerns that are somehow never considered yet they're the main bottlenecks for the future of mass EV adoption in the cities.
Either you are ignorant and unjustifiably overconfident in your opinions,
- or -
I am living in a simulation and the many long road trips I have done in an EV have all just been an illusion.
What range problems?
30 minutes to all those places. :)
Heck a good electric bike can get me to half of them.
I go camping yearly but normally with my friend who takes his minivan. Even then only 1 of the trips has been over 200 miles away.
Seattle is awesome for a number of reasons, half of those reasons involve how close Seattle is to outdoor activities.
When on vacation using a rental I've driven way over 250 miles at a time, but I'm not counting that against use cases for my primary vehicle.
Fair that you wouldn't want a 200 mile range, but either 250 or 300 miles of range could serve you pretty well!
??? Maybe you've missed the memo?
Acceleration? EVs win.
Cabin Noise? EVs win.
Maintenance? EVs win.
Cost of driving? EVs win.
ICE vehicles win in exactly 1 scenario: Being able to fuel up quickly on road trips greater than 300 miles.
Not content to believe him, Top Gear put it to the test. See for yourself:
https://www.topgear.com/videos/top-gear-tv/tesla-model-3-vs-...
(Also, the Performance Model 3 had an over the air update to make it faster since this was filmed, and added track mode)
Regardless. It's still $20k more expensive than the Model 3 Performance it was against.
It is indeed tiny. People like to hear car engines rev at a car show or race track. Most of those same people don't want to have anything to do with those same sounds in their daily driver. Car manufacturers spend billions isolating the driver and the passengers from engine noises, vibrations, and in particular smells.
Acceleration: depends, not all EVs are Teslas; additionally this is a moot point, because we're not comparing race cars, and you'd be blocked by traffic anyways most of the time. You also won't save any time from faster accelerating, because you'll lose a lot more for charging.
Cabin noise: only in city driving, on highway most of noise comes from road and wind; HEVs are almost as good in city driving, because of driven carefully they use ICE only while accelerating.
Cost of driving: debatable, depends on the world region and electricity prices; the cost of driving 100km is lower in a HEV or diesel than an EV charged from a public fast-charger, at least in many regions of Europe
If you drive short distances only and you do have a garage, then charging at home will work for you, but then you might not get high enough mileage to offset the initial price difference.
Additionally the deprecation is higher on EVs (probably due to concerns about the battery durability) so that would be also included in the lease.
Also correlation is not causation. Generally eastern countries of former Soviet Union are poorer than western ones. EVs are more expensive than traditional cars, so obviously fewer people can afford.
Another reason is politics. At least in Poland, there are no subsidies for EVs. EVs need to compete directly with ICE cars, but it is hard to do so when they are 30% more expensive. You need to really drive a lot to get back 30% in gasoline savings.
I'm curious, not trying to start an argument.
> Additionally the deprecation is higher on EVs (probably due to concerns about the battery durability) so that would be also included in the lease.
Teslas retain their value exceptionally well.
They are already cheaper for TCO, unless you add the artificial constraint that it is only charged at a “public fast-charger...in Europe.”
Biggest issue is cost of level 2 home chargers and apartment resident charging.
https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV_cost...
Teslas compete quite well in terms of features and performance with other cars in its price range. If you aren't looking for a high performance car with luxury affordances, then you are out of luck. But if you are shopping for a $40k+ car, the Teslas compete quite well.
Tesla has been rapidly stealing market share from BMW, Mercedes, and other luxury brands for the past few years. This is why over the past 3 years ICE manufacturers are suddenly taking EVs far more seriously. As Tesla has moved down-market, they've stolen share at every step.
With the Cybertruck and Tesla's coming $25k car coming down the pike, they are going to have cars in most every market in the US. And the Cybertruck is price and feature competitive with other 4 door trucks.
If the rumors that the US is going to restore subsidies for Tesla, then thing will turn quite lopsided against ICE vehicles quickly.
> Cabin noise: only in city driving, on highway most of noise comes from road and wind;
Luxury cars which are as expensive as the Tesla have done a tremendous job isolating the engine noises. But you are claiming ICE cars are quiet and "win by a large margin" on price, and in that category, things aren't even close. As soon as the grade gets over 5% or you need to pass, the 4 banger in that $30k Civic is making itself known.
> the cost of driving 100km is lower in a HEV or diesel
I love how EVs have to compete favorably against every aspect of every non EV. Diesels and HEVs are not much less expensive than EVs. Diesels are particularly loud.
EVs are obviously far more interesting when you can charge them at home at lower power rates. That said, here in the states anyhow, charging my Tesla from 0 to 100% at a Supercharger costs less than half what it costs to fill my Subaru for a similar amount of milage.
> Diesels and HEVs are not much less expensive than EVs.
Not yet, at least not in Europe. HEVs are very close to ICEVs now, particularly when comparing to a car with automatic transmission or a diesel. But EVs of the same make are typically 30%-50% more expensive, if not additionally donated by government programs or not getting any preferred taxation. That's why they got popular more in countries that offered big donations / tax discounts (e.g. Norway).
Example: 2021 Hyundai Ionic Hybrid costs $24k, but a fully electric version starts at $33k. That's over 30% more. I could buy gasoline for over 15 years of driving for that.
At the price points they are competing in, Tesla has a competitive price offering (particularly if you are looking for performance). But there is a huge price umbrella below the base M3.
I'm not sure other EVs can say the same. The Bolt is in this weird territory where it's well priced for an EV, but it's not particularly well priced otherwise. Likewise the Nissan Leaf. I haven't seen or dealt with the VW.
It is very shrewd of Tesla to stick to price points where they can compete effectively. Focusing on places where they can sell vehicles which are competitive on merits allows them to sell vehicles as quickly as they produce them.