Taking ownership of the failures that led to the conditions which created support for the union vote in a substantial, committed, and convincing fashion is hard, but potentially an effective way for employers to change the direction of the case they've made to employees.
Directly instructing employees to vote "no", lying about how unions work in their area, lying about the voting timeline, installing an easily surveillable special mailbox for union votes, and pressuring the government to alter traffic controls to prevent employees from being able to spend time outside the workplace during the union voting period - this is how Amazon has chosen to make their case.
Amazon or any employer should still be able to make their case, even if they're wrong about some things ...
Indeed, a lot of unions, especially the big, old ones in the US, have become lazy and more interested in making nice deals with management than with sticking up for the workers.
That said, the experience the workers get from the process of unionizing in the first place can give them the confidence they need to realize that the union bureaucracy isn't doing everything it can, and to pressure it to be better (by things like wildcat strikes, as the teachers in Virginia did very successfully a few years ago).
> Amazon or any employer should still be able to make their case, even if they're wrong about some things ...
I recommend re-reading the post you're responding to, which addressed that the first time you said it.
The only reason Amazon raised their fulfillment pay was because Bernie Sanders shamed them into it [1].
[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+bernie+sanders+pay
I don't think this kind of claim, especially without evidence, is helpful. How do you know what their reasoning is? You're telling me on the one hand that this is a big powerful company and on the other hand saying they are easily cowed and susceptible to something as toothless as 'shame'. So which is it? My take is that companies are complex and make decisions based on many factors typically. You have no idea why they did or didn't do certain things, and it most likely has nothing to do with Sanders.
Also consider that trillion Dollars is their market capitalization not liquid cash on their hand. I don't think being a trillion Dollar company changes what they can afford or who they should reward with their profits. Amazon is already paying market-leading wages for unskilled labor and provides benefits. I don't really expect them to pay any more than minimum wage if they have enough workers interested in their jobs, since this is not differentiated work. So the fact that they're doing anything more should be appreciated. I don't think it makes sense to twist that into a criticism.
https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2020/04/29/Leaving-A...
https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2020/05/06/Answers
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-wo...
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/youre-just-dispos...
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/11/amazo...
https://nypost.com/2019/07/13/inside-the-hellish-workday-of-...
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20696154/amazon-prime-day...
Yeah, though the problem is that "case" is likely professionally polished FUD (if American Factory is any guide) hammered home in mandatory meeting after mandatory meeting. It's like if every voter was required to attend mandatory info sessions by Republican advocates for 20 hours in the two weeks before an election, while listening to the Democratic advocates was voluntary and optional.
heh if it passes and a union is formed i wonder how many "tabs" are going to be kept on employees who dare choose not to join. There's plenty of precedent for unions doing their own threatening and pressuring of employees to increase the coffers.
I can understand being wary, but that's all it is, wary.
I think we are both retreating to our priors, but it also seems speculative that amazon is using a sealed ballot drop off location to somehow track who is voting yes or no.
I think this is pretty standard and if they didn't have drop onsite drop off locations, the story would be that they are discouraging organizers by not providing them
The problem as I see it are the two other things:
- telling employees to vote by March 1st in a specific mailbox, even though the deadline is March 29th, is blatant intimidation (since management is clearly surveilling the mailbox and will know if you don’t comply). If that’s not illegal it really needs to be.
- “Protect what you have” is a very suspicious and threatening message that suggests retaliation if workers unionize (especially given the last page in the mailer). I would say this is paranoid if we weren’t talking about Amazon - they lost all presumptions of decency with the traffic light shenanigan.
Its not fair that Walmart and Amazon must compete against each other to buy labor but the sellers of labor can form a cartel protected by the federal government.
Mabye the executive of Amazon could be allowed to post a little column in paper like the Washington Post. Maybe the owner of that paper wouldn’t object to that idea.
do you think we should accept climate science from fossil fuel companies?
If you feel Amazon management isn't moral, they should repent and change their behavior, not "make their case."
Lying to people to try to get them to vote against their economic interests seems the sort of thing that lands people in hell or haunted by an evil doll in such a universe.
"He's just making his case" doesn't really seem like sort of reasoning that would follow in a moral universe. The import thing is "is that case moral?"