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Comment by hn_throwaway_99 | Hacker News Reader

> If it helps anyone else out there: no one else thinks about your hair besides you.

I mean, kinda. Sure, nobody is probably stressing about how many centimeters your scalp is receding, but you can bet lots of people will be more attracted to someone who looks young with a full head of hair compared to someone who has typical male pattern baldness. Just google "male hair restoration before and after" for some examples, and tell me you don't think there's a stark difference to most examples.

I do agree, though, fortunately it's become socially acceptable to shave your head and that can be seen as a sign of attractiveness (though I still think this cartoon is pretty accurate: https://i.imgur.com/IMmmP8A.gif)

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There's a running joke on the wsb subreddit about this, about the return that Elon saw in getting his hair fixed (I can't find the specific phrasing and construct of the joke at the moment), but anyway his transformation is fairly notable and there's no doubt it contributed in some part to his success: https://thenewdaily.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/elon-m...

I wish it were not true, but I think it sadly is, that as much people would like to think appearances don't matter, they do. Of course that doesn't mean you should beat yourself over it if you were dealt a bad hand in the hair department, because you can do something to improve your appearances in general! Start with a 5x5 or similar routine, because the gains in your confidence and appearances aside, the gains in strength and health are reason enough.

Then there's Jeff who doesn't care.

There is a lot of stuff you don't have to care about when your a top ten wealthiest man in the world.

Elon Musk is a great example of what is possible with hair transplants. He had severe balding at a very young age, and you would never know it today. I have a feeling that public perception of him would be quite a bit different if he still looked like his old self. Here is a before and after...the “before” image was taken in 2002:

https://pagesix-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/pagesix.com/wp-co...

The biggest part of the transformation is his attitude towards it. If you don't make a big deal out of it, nobody else will.

Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Jony Ive are all media darlings in the tech industry, so clearly being bald isn't an impediment.

If you look at the acting world, Bruce Willis, Jason Statham, Patrick Stewart, Vin Diesel, Dwayne Johnson all make it incredibly clear that baldness doesn't stop you from being considered a sex symbol.

Well, that list implies you have a built body so that the baldness is not a factor. If you're average or worse, it's not going to play the same way.

a built body is an achievable target for most men

WRT to Patrick Stewart / Picard - Roddenberry had this retort when asked about it by reporter about casting Stewart in Star Trek: TNG. "Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness." And Gene Roddenberry responded "No, by the 24th century, no one will care." Could by apocryphal, I'm too lazy to check. I've worried a fair bit about losing my hair and it use to take up a lot of head space. Since then though, I've acquired a chronic, mildly painful condition. I'm not as optimistic as Roddenberry however, I do now see being bald but in otherwise good health as still being very fortunate, more than many, perhaps most. It doesn't mean that we can't find ways to remedy it, but it helped me see it in a grander scheme. I just wear a hat now.

> WRT to Patrick Stewart / Picard - Roddenberry had this retort when asked about it by reporter about casting Stewart in Star Trek: TNG. "Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness." And Gene Roddenberry responded "No, by the 24th century, no one will care." Could by apocryphal, I'm too lazy to check.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Roddenberry took this position in response to outside questions once the decision was made, but if so it's a bit ironic given that it's also been widely reported (including by Stewart) that Roddenberry was openly anti-Stewart during the casting process for not having the look he wanted, in part because of his baldness.

As a (somewhat insecure) Asian guy, I have to say that skull shape matters. Some of us tend to have flat back of heads, which is less than ideal in Western beauty standards.

In my younger years I had my head buzzed to a near monk length (I was pretty obsessed with Buddhism at the time) and it did not look right. Friends commented that I looked 'intense.' While perfect for the monk persona, I was going for the more badass tough guy look. It was a tough few months.

Also, facial hair helps a lot, which I am unable to grow.

So I look forward to hair plugs if I ever start going bald.

fwiw I dont think anyone you encounter on the street even notices skull shape, don't sweat it..

The concept of "pretty privilege" is something I'd never really payed much attention to throughout life. I always focused on hard work, kindness, sincerity, positivity, and openness. I hit 30 recently, and while I had a lot of people who value me, I didn't really feel like I was being pulled in so much as proving my way into society.

So I started focusing on superficial stuff. Better clothes, better style, cologne, shit like that. I don't think these things alone would be enough to matter; I think it's really important to work on who you are on the inside before becoming a facade.

But holy fuck there's a difference. From what I can tell, being more or less attractive is the single biggest factor in how people will treat you.

And from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense: good looking is supposed to mean good genes, and good genes are precious.

Sorry if this is kind of a bummer thing to talk about, but I think the more aware of it we become as a species, the closer we'll get to recognizing our pre-programmed bias towards good looks and perhaps looking passed it to the actual quality of the character.

Also, I'm pretty sure every girl learns this the day they wear makeup, and then the day they don't.

There's a great Sci-Fi short story by Ted Chiang called, "Liking What You See: A Documentary".

It's about a reversible procedure that inhibits the ability for people to detect prettiness 'calliagnosia'. They talk about 'lookism'.

It does an interesting job exploring what this would mean and the good and bad associated with it (which I think Ted Chiang always does a great job of).

It's definitely worth reading.

Not sure why this is getting down voted, there are definitely evolutionary advantages to looking for secondary and tertiary indicators of health.

> From what I can tell, being more or less attractive is the single biggest factor in how people will treat you.

Sadly, this is absolutely correct. I want to say I wish someone told me this sooner... but they kinda did... only in hints that were easy for me to misunderstand. Socially dumber people, like me, need to be told things less ambiguously.

Things like hard work, kindness, sincerity, positivity, openness... yes, they definitely contribute to long-term success and happiness. Problem is, your looks decide which doors will open for you. And it doesn't matter if hypothetically you could do a great job, if you are not allowed to try. On the other hand, if you get invited to many places, you get many opportunities to practice, so even if you suck at first, over time you improve.

There is this thing called "halo effect", which means that if you are attractive, people are going to assume all kinds of good things about you, without any evidence, sometimes despite the evidence to contrary.

> Also, I'm pretty sure every girl learns this the day they wear makeup, and then the day they don't.

With makeup, it is easy to make an A/B test. I wonder if we could borrow an artificial body and face for a day, how much that would change our priorities in life.

> And from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense: good looking is supposed to mean good genes, and good genes are precious.

There’s also other inferences you can draw, such as being disciplined enough to groom, having time and money to have clean, fitting clothes, etc.

Oh dear. He does look better with hair. I'm sure it's nice to say "No one cares about your hairloss other than you". But I don't think any metric in society would back that up.

Being bald was good for the careers of The Rock and Bruce Willis, but that only holds if you're not a fit tough guy with the right head shape.

That's the problem with bald, the pretty much the only 'stereotypically attractive' archetype you have is fit muscular action man.

The only non-fit celeb I can really think of that might be known as attractive is Patrick Stewart in TNG, and I'm not sure if he was considered attractive vs. more respected role model and leader.

I wouldn't put Willis in the category as particularly muscular. He's usually cast at the every man. What he does is exude man in his on screen confidence.

He is above average in fitness and muscularity, and he is an action hero actor, so it's pretty close!

I don’t know if Willis would have succeeded today. I can’t think of any similar “every man” casting today. Maybe the new Jurassic Park guy? But I would say he’s much better looking than Willis.

I know a number of women who made comments about wanting to jump captain Picard's bones back in the day, but I think that was as much about his aura of intelligence and authority as his looks.

He does look tired and sickly on his younger picture, that doesn't help either.

Yeah Elon and Seth MacFarlane are touted as big examples. But basically every celebrity has had this done.

A lot of men get plastic surgery too.

Has it ever been not socially acceptable to shave your head as a male? I have a feeling the "shave it all off" has been a strategy ever since we've had razors sharp enough.

edit: a comment below mentions that it is unacceptable nowadays in some East Asian cultures.

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

Only anecdotal, but my father always tells that the original skin heads when he was a young man were so transgressive as the hair cut was usually one of weakness. It was the cut of prisoners, insane asylum inmates, prisoners of war etc.

At the time it was in no way considered manly or even threatening. It was truly a statement that we likely can't imagine now.

But it rapidly became the haircut of the working class, especially factory workers. It's really nice to have very short hair in dirty, greasy environments.

It's definitely more socially acceptable now than it was in earlier times. Do you remember the bald guy episode from Seinfeld? While it was not shocking that the guy had a bald head, it was certainly unusual enough for Jerry to remark "Is he from the future?"

I decided I liked a buzz-cut when I was in university. My mother's reaction when she saw it over a videocall was that I looked like a criminal.

My mom liked so-called "clean cut" guys (military background), so she made my brother and I buzz our hair growing up. Now my hair is now over a foot long and her reaction is that I also look like a criminal.

Heh, my father is a military man and growing up we always had our hair cut short. Several years ago I started growing my hair out and was ready for barrage of “hippie” jokes or whatever else would come with that.

Surprisingly it never happened. In fact my parents were really surprised. My youngest brother (nearly 20 year age difference) has a very curly head full of hair and it turns out mine also gets very curly/could with some length. Never new that was in our genetics.

As a tall, skinny white guy who also likes leather jackets, I fear if I shave my head I'll be lumped in with the neo nazi sympathisers.

So you think every skinny white guy who also likes leather jackets is a neo nazi sympathiser? Don't assume/worry what others think about your look

Your look is a message, it's something you chose and thus he should be aware of it.

in indian culture, one shaves the head when one is mourning, lost their dear ones (parents).

also, there is the practice of tonsuring one's head to offer the hair to the gods (as a sign of humility)

and, historically, losers have their heads tonsured to show their weakness, also a punishment for petty theft, like stealing cattle, etc

In the Indian culture, it was also expected for the Priestly caste to shave their heads (with the exception of the shikha. Side note: when Brahmins would mourn for the death of their parent, they wouldn't shave the shikha, it would instead be left open & unknotted) - there's a certain traditional cultural cache in India with shaved heads.

The Islamic State forbade shaving one’s beard, but I don’t think they had similar rules for shaving one’s head. If they had, they must have made exceptions for pilgrims, as shaving one’s head after one is part of the rituals around (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihram#Behaviour_and_cleanlines...)

Wasn't common for white guys until relatively recently. It was a common hacky baldness joke in the 80s and 90s to say "if I was a black guy, I'd shave it all off!" Probably increased at around the same time as the hipster beard thing.

>has it ever been not socially acceptable to shave your head...?

Yes, if you took the Nazarite oath (think Samson in the Bible).

I dunno man, Patrick Stewart has always been mostly bald and is he any less attractive for it? It has the extra added benefit that you can't tell someone's age, so in his case he's been in his 40's throughout his career.

If I could look like Patrick Stewart or Sean Connery going bald would be great. Of course those guys look better than me even with hair so what can I expect.

not everybody looks as him (or few other known bald celebrities), and not everybody has shape of the head or skin to look as good.

But I agree once baldness progresses to be plain visible, the best course is to either trim to very short or shave it all. Can look cool with good beard, but again not everybody has the genes for that.

You have to be attractive in the first place to be attractive when bald.

You have to be attractive in the first place. Bald, hair doesn't really matter. What's probably more significant is if people lose confidence or are self conscious about their baldness.

Patrick Stewart touched on the topic of going bald in an excerpt from an interview on the BBC (Parkinson) [1]. It's pretty funny.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXOK-ZVJMaU

"Go baldly where no one has gone before."

> but you can bet lots of people will be more attracted to someone who looks young with a full head of hair compared to someone who has typical male pattern baldness.

People are attracted to confidence. A person who has issues about self-image (baldness being one particular aspect of that) will always be less attractive from that angle alone.

If you're bald and feel self-conscious about it making you unattractive, the better road to attractiveness is to stop being self-conscious (easier said than done), rather than stopping being bald (even harder to do). This is basically what the OP is alluding to: the solution to the "baldness problem" isn't treatment, but rather acceptance.

There are plenty of females attracted to older males. The reverse is not nearly as true. There is a good genetic basis for this: young females that breed with an old male bring in whatever genetics cause long life. However old females are unable to breed at all so males that attempt to breed with older females fail and thus don't pass their genes on.

The above is really messy as it applies to the real world, but the basics are true enough.

> but you can bet lots of people will be more attracted to someone who looks young with a full head of hair compared to someone who has typical male pattern baldness

I think there are just as many people who are attracted to a guy with a shaved head.

I don't have personal experiences with it, but from observing a couple of friends who shave their head, it doesn't seem to me that they are less successful sexually/romantically.

What procedure did Elon Musk have? His hair looks great, but the hair he had at paypal was like cotton candy.

Follicle transplants, the hair loss treatment that works.

When he hooked up with Grimes it just kinda grew back..

Fortunately, becoming hot is easier that reverting baldness :)

Wigs are in and you can't really tell the difference. That being said male hair restoration is at minimum a billion dollar industry which tells you something, men are still successfully reproducing despite genetics that lead to male pattern baldness.

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