Comment by DoreenMichele | Hacker News Reader

Comment by DoreenMichele | Hacker News Reader

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The paper cites the real-life case of Megan Meier, who hanged herself in 2007 after being bullied by people she thought were her friends — with the added twist of a mother orchestrating the social media bullying scheme.

Yeah. Parents and teachers are probably the people we should be training to behave better, not teenagers caught in a system they didn't design and often desperately wish they could escape.

Edit: I will add that a lot of my social problems in high school were rooted in or exacerbated by teachers holding me up as the example to hate on. They would brag about my high scores as if that somehow reflected positively on their teaching ability (it didn't) and then simultaneously act like if other people weren't doing as well as I was, it was because they weren't trying hard enough or something (disavowing their own responsibility for poor outcomes in the classroom).

That seems to be a norm in schools and is directly related to the described teen behavior in the article.

What is even more true is that the children often pick up behaviour from adults, especially at home and in abuse relationships. So it doesn't matter how much propaganda about bullying is spewed forth in school, when the real raising of children happen in other places.

For adults, bullying, injustice, unfairness and exclusion is just standard, normal behaviour, especially at top leadership.

For adults, bullying, injustice, unfairness and exclusion is just standard, normal behaviour, especially at top leadership.

Somewhat. However, in contrast to kids, adults have rights and access to the judicial system, which makes bullying etc. harder.

What do you think it is when some superior at work tries to mock in jest or get disproportionate agressive at mistakes? Its an undertone to reinforce social heirarchies. If you call bullshit on it, it may stop or worsen. Its all power play. Bullying is just part of a spectrum. When someone gives a dirty look to a rude waiter it is not much different than being abusive to someone cause you see a decent route where you get away with the bad behavior.

This is why you have anonymous trolls but polite and civil strangers.

>adults have rights and access to the judicial system, which makes bullying etc. harder.

Except in the equally common cases where the judicial system makes bullying etc. easier.

There's definitely bullying within families and between spouses unfortunately. Kids may internalize that and act it out with their peers.

If it was easy to judge, within any institutions, bullying would've been solved long ago.

Teachers and administrators bullied me indirectly through the most popular kids in school. Several schools. I made a few of them pay and pay when I figured out their abuse patterns depended on me staying quiet. I never went to any formal authorities because I didn't think I would be believed.

This social issue of adults using children like this is extremely rampant. It's a phenomenon you can't unsee.

[edit: the one ray of hope? the teacher who ever took my side? arrested for sexual assault on a minor while I was still in attendance.]

Did you mean "never"?

I don’t think that ray of hope came through

A false hope, indeed. It may be worth mentioning that this was not only the local affluent district, but among the top 5 in the state, ranked by wealth or academic performance. All that cash in the district, and they still couldn't vet teachers well.

Regarding your edit: I learned in school to hide my ability in order to avoid the problems you faced. I think a lot of kids did (most?). It’s what leads to that stereotype of a teacher asking an obvious question but nobody raises their hand. What a messed up situation for an education system to punish performance and teach people to not engage and hide ability.

Then there’s the nasty ego side effect of us all thinking we’re smarter than everyone else because we assume we’re the only ones hiding our abilities.

It reminds me of this meme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMV9XA6t_8

Your point eludes the fact we're all caught in this system, not just teenagers. Parents have few choices, they have certain budget for a house and that dictates which district they're in. Meanwhile, they're struggling and working hard and education is a pivotal means of upward mobility, so they feel it's extremely important to their child's future.

US Teachers are grossly underpaid and have to deal with tremendous amounts of training already...and stress. Consider in many of our schools, you have one teacher to 20 or 25 students, many of whom have undiagnosed learning disabilities, developmental problems, social issues, familial problems, hunger, mental health issues...teachers are already working insanely hard for low pay. I worked exclusively in struggling schools and I had kids with cousins shot dead, kids who literally jumped onto the table and screamed how myself and other teachers were racists, it's insane what teachers have to handle.

So no, We can't lay everything at the feet of current parents and teachers, there's a lot of policy, politics, and history in the educational field that no current teacher or parent had anything to do with. They're struggling and vying for success just as they see the children suffering.

So no, We can't lay everything at the feet of current parents and teachers

I'm a parent. I'm a parent who was sexually abused as a child and succeeded in not passing on my awful baggage about sex to my children.

I took the position "The buck stops here" and was unwilling to accept excuses.

I was fortunate to be a military wife and it allowed me to be a homemaker. I ultimately homeschooled my sons for a lot of years.

My first blog was a parenting and homeschooling blog. I've had a few of them and none have really gelled.

I would love to be part of the solution here for the wider world, not just for my kids. I don't know how to make that happen while getting no real engagement.

Adults are absolutely the people who must be held responsible. Making excuses for why current adults can't do better by the children in their charge is part of the problem.

I'm fine with saying "The US has amazingly shitty policies generally and needs to be more family friendly." I get that.

But someone, somewhere has to take responsibility. And that someone needs to be a current adult, not a legal minor.

From what I gather, anti-bullying programs tend to try to intercede with the kids in a way that fundamentally doesn't work. They don't have the legal rights or agency to stand up for themselves.

Adults are the ones who have that. Adults are our only hope here.

Oh that's awful. Agreed, terrible behaviour from teachers there.

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