Comment by kelnos | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kelnos | Hacker News Reader

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In 1996 (or thereabouts), I lived in Maryland, and my family lost power for 6 days due to a snow/ice storm that took out a ton of power lines (water froze on them and the added weight pulled them down). We had no natural gas service, and our running water was provided by a well in the backyard that had an electric pump. So no electricity, heat, or running water for 6 days in ~20-30°F weather. (Fortunately we'd prepared by buying many gallons of drinking water, and filling up bathtubs and buckets with water earlier in the week.)

We had two fireplaces in the house, one each in the living room and master bedroom, so we kept all doors closed and all slept in the master bedroom. They did a decent enough job keeping us somewhat comfortable while wearing several layers and winter coats at all times, and sleeping in sleeping bags and with extra blankets. (An oddity of our house was that the chimney ran through the middle of it, not outside an exterior wall, so even some of the heat going up it would warm the house a bit.)

After 4 days my dad felt the roads were clear enough for us to go to a motel where we could shower and experience some heat. Going back to the house after that (before power was restored) was in some ways worse than enduring the first 4 days.

Granted, the reason for that outage was very different from what happened in Texas, but I just wanted to highlight that our power grid everywhere is still very susceptible to bad weather. (Well, ok, this story is 25 years old, but I suspect things haven't changed all that much.)

>Granted, the reason for that outage was very different from what happened in Texas

There are actually a lot of ice/ freezing-rain downed powerlines happening simultaneously with the rolling blackouts, and that's a huge part of the problem.

The grid/supply is being blamed for both. Of course if the lines weren't down, it would increase demand and there wouldn't magically be any more supply to feed them... but it does explain why a lot of people's blackouts aren't "rolling."

The grid supply issue is orders of magnitude worst than the downed powerlines.

I don't know anyone who is affected by a downed powerline and I know 12 people without power.

We've had a ridiculous cold snap in northern U.S. the last couple of weeks, where every day is at least -15f and every night -30f, not including wind-chill. So much so that 8f out feels warm now.

Have not had even a blip of outage for anything. Last year I believe something damaged a large power pole and we were out for 3 hours.

If warmer states took notes on how north states do it we wouldn't be in this pickle I assume. Also warm states need to bury their water lines deeper.

I remember that storm! Week off of school and you could skate right on the sidewalk.

I remember trees encased in beautiful ice. Freezing rain, basically encased everything in that ice: powerlines, trees, roads, it was a monster.

Interior or central chimneys make more sense to me than ones against an exterior wall, and they seem common enough in houses of a certain vintage at least. If your chimney is on an outer wall, doesn't it radiate heat to the outdoors?

Chimneys on outer walls are worse on every measure compared to internal ones.

They loose heat to the outdoors as you say and since they cool down a lot faster than the internal chimneys it is also generally harder to get the fire going when re-lighting. The chimney on my house is on an outer wall and when it's below 0C I have to light a fire every day or it becomes too much of a hassle to get it going.

Here where I live (northern Europe), chimneys are always internal. Nobody would even think external chimneys. Heat loss is massive that way.

Old houses in New England were built with internal chimneys for the same reason (less heat loss).

Houses in southern states were built with external chimneys which made sense for a couple reasons. Back in the day people would keep a fire 24/7 for cooking and that fire + southern heat is uncomfortable. Because of the shorter cold season the chimney was on the outside of the house. Also, in the case of chimney fires you could tie a chain around an external chimney and rip it down with a horse, hopefully saving your home.

The ones on the outside can use outside air to go up the chimney, avoiding the problem listed above. Harder to do with inside chimneys.

Last place I rented with a fireplace, there was a metal door in brickwork below it in the basement. It wasn’t until after I moved out that I realized what it was for.

Wood ashes also collect in the small chamber in the basement under the chimney. As a child in Michigan, one of my hamsters escaped his confinement. Poor little Pinky couldn't be found in the house, but a couple of days after disappearing my Mom found him in the chamber covered in ashes that had cushioned his fall. (He made a full recovery from his adventure.)

I think if you're having to worry about makeup air cooling the house down than your fireplace heats it, that's less to do with chimney placement and more with how the fireplace is designed. I.e a gas flame in a fireplace with no appreciable thermal mass and a chimney that pipes the heat straight out is where I'd look to first as a problem.

A massive stone fireplace that's heated with a single load of fuel, then has its chimney flaps closed to keep the heat from escaping, is going to be much more efficient. I wonder if maybe the fireplaces in many parts of the USA are actually designed to not heat the house too much, given the usual weather in e.g. Texas.

Is there no CO2 danger from sleeping with gas stove on? Don’t people die from carbon monoxide poisoning from sleeping with open flames?

No, due to ventilation. Even an indoor fireplace for example is -always- vented, so the gasses can escape via the chimney. If you close the damper with a fire blazing, you'll not have a good time.

Outdoor fires well, are outdoors, so there's plenty of oxygen.

People die nearly every year in the brutal cold from getting desperate and bringing grills and such indoors to light, which is a big no no.

Not all indoor fireplaces are ventilated in the US, actually. (Source: have one unventilated fireplace that is probably mostly for aesthetics and not to be used for extended perios of time)

Downvoting because this isn't the case in the US at least. It's still legal to install internally vented gas burning fireplaces.

AFAIK it's not illegal to run your grill indoors, either. Being legal isn't the same as being a good idea. Ventless fireplaces are also not legal in a lot of places in the US, for good reason.

Legality is a signal for safety for most people. The natural gas industry, and the manufacturers of indoor gas ovens, stoves, fireplaces, etc all claim that what they sell is safe for indoor use. People have an expectation that the federal government will regulate things which are bad for us. In my opinion, they're failing miserably in this particular area.

Nitpick: CO.

Otherwise - no, if there is enough oxygen coming in. When fireplace is done properly it is not a problem.

Technically, I believe the problem is the CO concentration and exposure time, not displacement of oxygen. CO binds to hemoglobin more effectively than oxygen, preventing enough oxygen from getting to the body's tissues. CO poisoning is common: 20,000 hospital visits per year in the United States, and in many countries is the most common form of poisoning. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

carbon monoxide is CO, not CO2.

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