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Comment by dreamdu5t | Hacker News Reader

Please let us end the myth of staying up all night as some noble right of passage, or that if you don't find this enjoyable you're not really a hacker or you don't enjoy your work.

I'm a hacker. I don't enjoy hacking for 18 hours straight because I feel tired and groggy unless I take drugs.

I work better when I'm rested and focused. Everybody does.

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Everybody does some of the time, but not everybody does all of the time. I can relate: there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep.

It's one of the most rewarding (and rare) experiences of a hacker-entrepreneur. Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out. When I'm meandering through a problem instead of pouring everything into it, I rarely get these sorts of "eureka" moments.

there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep.

If you're going to bed, that's not what I'm talking about. The blog post speaks about working on 3 hours of sleep.

Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out.

See this is what I'm talking about. This idea that you're not a "real hacker" unless you enjoy staying up all night.

My comment was an aside. I never implied being a real hacker means staying up all night. I don't enjoy it (although I like fighting off the fatigue when I'm really enjoying my work). I was just relating the circumstances that lead up to memorable moments for me.

it's not about working at night, but going balls out from waking to sleep. how long u stay awake doesn't matter, but the passion that engages your every waking moment, and makes you want to stay awake longer, so great is your desire to hack.

Perhaps, but some realize that the mind can control the body in unhelpful ways. For me, my mind races at night. Sometimes I indulge, but I always feel like complete shit the next day.

I've learned my mind doesn't actually want to stay up all night. I had to optimize my own process.

i said: "it's not about working at night, but going balls out from waking to sleep."

if you sleep early, ok. but when you're awake, do you want to spend all your time hacking? then you have the passion. if not, then not. that's my point: it's what you want to do with your waking hours, not which hours your prefer to sleep.

I wasn't arguing with you. My point is that even if I have the passion, the passion might not optimize for productivity. A super late night might ruin the next day, for example. I have to harness the passion to make it more productive.

Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out.

or ovaries-out, i suppose?

There are roughly two kinds of people based on their working habits.

One kind is the steady craftsman kind who gets up at 6, works three hours, takes a coffee break, works more, and continues in this fashion until he has reached his limit for one day. The other one is the crazy artist kind who mulls over a task for days until he suddenly gets inspired and taps right into the zone and works for hours or days nonstop and gets amazing things done.

Both kinds generally get the same amount of work done on the final page, they just divide the effort differently.

I've always observed that hacking, for me, is just like that artist's work: I gotta do my work when I'm in the flow. All I can do is give myself enough rest afterwards when it's over.

I've observed that when I'm rested and theoretically focused I might not get nothing done. I can pretend to be working but I just don't get it, get anything, or get anything done. I might consider myself a lazy ass of a procrastinator but luckily I know that is only one half of the truth. Sometimes it happens that I just code for 12 hours or 24 hours straight while hunger and consciousness of time gradually slip away, and that means I get lots, lots, and lots done—even when I'm technically tired as a sloth but still in the zone.

A day-to-day work of a programmer is, thus, to work out a routine that splits your work in two halves. The boring tasks that require not much creativity are best done while not in the zone (and still you'll waste hours and hours and hours on nothing). The creative process of making is best reserved for when you've got the flow and then it means business, baby, and working like hell as long as it lasts.

Phew!

I think you're creating a false dichotomy. I used to believe that I was the "artist" type, but I was mainly just a procrastinator who didn't have good work habits. I became the "steady progress" type as I took on bigger, harder projects. And honestly, passion is a lot harder to come by when you're working on an intractable bug six years into a long-term project. If you rely on the muses to guide you, you rarely get things done, because that last 1% is rarely ever fun.

Also, you might be surprised by how many artists have a strict routine, and dedicate themselves to a regular pattern of practice. Twyla Tharp wrote an entire book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Habit-Learn-Use-Life/dp/07432...

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