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Comment by robjan | Hacker News Reader

I can receive bitcoins but I cant buy food with bitcoins or pay my staff with bitcoins. At some point I need to convert these coins to fiat and that's subject to the same controls that GP noted.

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Are you sure you can't spend Bitcoin directly for goods and services? Have you tried? When was the last time you searched for physical shops near you [1] that accept it?

[1] https://coinmap.org/

I can buy mining equipment or stay at an hourly love hotel located in the red light district in my city according to the map. I guess some of my needs could be met.

Not bad. I have a dentist one town over, and "Bitcoin Fabio" who has spammed the map in every major city nearby and buys and sells Bitcoin, and seems very trustworthy, because he says it is "100% safe !"

I think I prefer your options...

The fees are too high and at least in the US, every transaction is taxable.

No one should be using on-chain Bitcoin transactions for in-person exchange. Partly due to the high fees, but mostly because of double-spending and lack of privacy. Lightning Network solves all of these problems. Fees are much lower, settlement is instant and clear to even unsophisticated users, and the recipient cannot see from where the funds originated.

Taxes are a different issue and that's up to each jurisdiction to solve via better legislation.

Don't you still have to pay the tx fee to open a lightning network channel? Anyway the whole thing lost me with the block size debate (always been a big blocker). Where are we at with lightning network adoption anyway?

Yes, an on-chain transaction is required to open a channel. But once open you can continue to use it forever, or until you (or your counter-party) decide to close it.

Lightning Network adoption is slow and steady. There are several newbie-friendly mobile wallet apps available [1][2][3]. Some nice improvements have been developed and pushed live in the last 18 months (e.g watchtowers [4] and atomic multi-path payments (AMP) [5]). There are now five Lightning Network node implementations (lnd, eclair, c-lightning, rust lightning, Electrum). And there are hardware projects working to bring LN into the physical space - one of which is my own project, a Lightning-only Bitcoin ATM named "Bleskomat" [6].

[1] https://phoenix.acinq.co/

[2] https://www.walletofsatoshi.com/ (!!) <-- custodial

[3] https://breez.technology/

[4] https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/8d2582e51eb615c850b24e...

[5] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/20...

[6] https://www.bleskomat.com/

Thanks for the references!

I looked for restaurants, groceries and cafes around Silicon Valley (which I'd think would have a higher than average density of crypto holders).

There were 2, and both appear to be out of business.

I am sure. The nearest listed physical shop that accepts Bitcoin is 160 km away from me and it sells custom-made mugs.

There are two restaurants like 60 miles from my location that accept btc, according to that website.

That's why it's so important that Tesla may make it possible to buy cars with Bitcoin.

Coinbase is about to release a debit card [1] that you'll be able to use everywhere.

[1] https://www.coinbase.com/card

"Coinbase will automatically convert all cryptocurrency to US Dollars for use in purchases and ATM withdrawals".

This removes a little friction, but the vendors are not taking crypto. Its not really any different than using a US credit card in a foreign country - the vendor isn't taking USD, even if thats what I end up being billed in (along with the associated fees).

If they do that, they’ll need to follow the same regulations any other bank does.

At least it'll be able to scale... because it uses the VISA network :-)

Send me your bitcoins and I’ll buy food and have it sent to you.

I’m sure you’ll find many others willing to take your bitcoin in exchange for helping you buy what you need or provide the services you require.

Bitcoin is supposed to be trustless but now I have to not only trust the merchant but a stranger on the internet to purchase those items using their fiat.

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