Comment by cookiecaper | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cookiecaper | Hacker News Reader

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I use the command line a lot, but really, how big of a contribution is cat, ls, find, etc.? It's not like these are extremely complex or difficult programs; the GNU version is still the dominant one mainly because it works fine and it had momentum. I acknowledge that these have grown to be relatively advanced and it may not be an overnight job to rig up a replacement, and I appreciate the effort that has been put in to them by GNU developers, but it certainly wouldn't leave us desolate if we all had to stop using GNU code for some reason. There are non-GNU implementations of these programs already.

Other than that, how much of my normal CLI usage is attributable to GNU? I'll give screen. What about OpenSSH, Python, htop, pacman, etc.? I use these a lot and they are not from GNU. If I am primarily running Python programs on my Linux box, should I call it Python/Linux since the Python Foundation is the most significant contributor to my userspace experience?

It's not like these are extremely complex or difficult programs

Have you looked at cat.c?

You'll be surprised how complex and optimized even the supposedly simple ones are.

Multiple decades of optimization and cross-platform polish are nothing to sneeze at. Try working against the Darwin or Solaris userland sometime if you want to experience what the alternatives look like. Not pretty at all.

What about gcc?

What about clang?

The point isn't that GNU programs aren't useful -- it's just that the claim that GNU is so important it should be included as a mandatory prefix any time anyone mentions "Linux" in a context that is not kernel exclusive is grating and silly.

What about clang? It isn't part of the OS. It can't even build the OS yet. It's a nice project, and it might be a solid competitor to gcc in the near future, but the fact that it exists hardly refutes the point that gcc is a large, crucially important component of a modern Linux distribution.

(I should point out that I too find the whole GNU/Linux tiff silly, but equally silly are the folks who try to write the FSF out of the picture out of spite.)

clang builds Linux as of October. See http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2010-October/0117... .

gcc isn't really "part of the OS" either. Many distributions don't even include it in the default install. Ubuntu is a prominent such distribution.

I'm not trying to write FSF out of the picture. I appreciate their contributions and surely things like gcc, gdb, and emacs are hefty achievements. I am grateful to the FSF and the GNU Project for its legacy and its direct benefit to myself in terms of code provided. However, I don't feel that these contributions entitle GNU to a special prefix on the OS name any more than it entitles KDE, Mozilla, Xorg, or anyone else to a special prefix. I use code from all of those parties and quite appreciate that code, too.

No one wants to write them out of the picture. It's just not realistic to credit all the vital contributors in the name. Why is GNU not content with the CREDITS file?

Because their primary goal is evangelism of the free software ideal, not software development.

The generic term for the Linux ecosystem is not the venue for that. It might have helped if it were done early on, but GNU and the free software movement are in no danger of falling into obscurity at this point.

Anyone who might have followed the GNU/ to find out what it is would have found out about the free software movement in the process of learning about Linux. That was my introduction to it, and this naming campaign has given me a negative impression.

I'm glad people are working on replacements for GNU so I don't see someone saying "you mean GNU/Linux" every time anyone mentions Linux in public.

What about Debian GNU/kFreeBSD?

The point isn't that Linux isn't useful -- it's just that the claim that Linux is so important it should be included as a mandatory suffix any time anyone mentions "GNU" in a context that is not kernel exclusive is grating and silly.

On a more serious note, Android is a great example of a non-GNU Linux(or not-as-much-GNU Linux).

The company that made the table saw that cut the lumber for my house doesn't get partial naming rights to my house either, I don't receive mail addressed

Mr. Black & Decker/Bane

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