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Comment by ramraj07 | Hacker News Reader

Things I can never appreciate. People (predominantly African American) are getting their brains curried for the sake of other people (who are stereotypically if not predominantly white). If it weren't for nostalgia or the fact that too many Americans consider it in their bloods to watch this sport, such a cruel game shouldn't exist in this form.

The racist undertones don't seem to stop there. I watched a game in A&M and it was surreal - a good fraction of the team is black but almost no one in the stadium was. And the quarterback and coach are white, and are commanding a bunch of black kids to smush their brains permanently. Given that at least roman gladiators were paid professionally, college football sounds far closer to slave-driven thunderdome scenarios than even the Colosseum did.

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The population of Texas is 12.8% black, slightly lower than the US average of 13.4%. For the stands to be mostly black people at a public event (in most areas where they represent a small share of population) would mean that the event was overwhelming of interest to black people and not so much to others. A crowd that looks like the demographics of the region surrounding it is healthy, not a sign of racism.

As for college football, while black athletes are “over represented” for their share of the population, according to the NCAA they are still a bit less than half the number of players. There is no shortage of white people who want to play football and are willing to risk injury to do so.

The over representation of black people in high-level athletics is meritocratic: they get there by being the best. There is a legitimate question as to why many in the black community pursue sports so seriously, when the odds of a successful career are terribly low compared to more mundane things like accounting or whatever. I am not an expert, but my understanding is this is more a factor of black people disproportionately living with poor performing schools and structural poverty, such that children have see fewer role models that “look like them” outside of sports, which in turn facilitates the perception they have a better chance of success in sports than in other fields, even though that’s generally not true.

>> For the stands to be mostly black people at any public event would mean that the event was overwhelming of interest to black people and not so much to others.

What about a sports game in Detroit, Baltimore, etc? The crowds aren’t a majority black

The OP mentioned going to one football game “at A&M,” which I assume to be Texas A&M, which is what I was responding to. I happen to be familiar with that stadium and it’s environs.

I can’t speak to the issues in Detroit or Baltimore, as I don’t know much about them. However I would guess by your implication that the crowds do not reflect the local population. I said in my comment that reflecting the local population is healthy, so if those places do not reflect the local population I would say that’s a sign of unhealth.

Edit: you make a fair point, and to be clear I’ve edited my post to be more specific about this.

I don't understand the racism here. Millions of white kids, consisting of every position in football, would kill to get a chance to play professionally. You're acting like only black kids are allowed to be linemen.

Those white kids have lots of other opportunities, the black kids do not.

The racism isn't in the sport per se, it's in the society that makes the (dangerous) sport one of only a handful of options for some groups.

It's tough, because there's no clear, single "bad guy" to hate, but that doesn't make it any less shitty for the people living through it.

White poverty is a problem, too. You don't have to be black to be poor.

You’re more likely to be black if you are poor, though.

I'm confused where you get the impression that this poster is acting like 'only black kids are allowed to be linemen'. Outside of quarterback, the offensive line is where you're more likely to see white players.

You'll typically see black players mostly represented in the 'skill' positions (receiver, running back, linebacker, defensive back -- basically any position that relies of speed and quickness). This comes from generations of racist attitudes pushing black players to the 'athletic' positions while keeping white players for the positions that require 'intelligence', 'grit', and 'leadership'.

Also, it's not just the line that suffers brain injury.

No one watching it is racist for doing so, but to deny there's no racist undertone here is just trying to live under a rock. Especially after pointing out the stats.

Used to be the claim was sports were racist for not allowing black people to play, now it's racist that they do and that black people succeed at higher rates in sports.

When you're looking to claim racism, it doesn't matter what the underlying situation is, you'll find a way to make it racist.

It's when the sport they play and succeed also causes permanent Brain damage that it becomes hard to ignore. Basketball is also racist slightly (white billionaires owning black teams) but at least their sanity is left intact.

It sounds like you have a lot of bias, assumptions, and even personal racial anecdotes you are projecting.

I hope not! I'm probably the person with the least skin in the game tbh - just a visiting Indian student for whom the entire thing looks like a documentary if anything. If there's a reason you think my statements might be biased, I'm all ears! I did point out why the other side (football lovers? White people? Suppose there's some differences!) Might be biased, viz. Growing up with (mostly watching, not playing) this sport all their life. It's understandable to feel offended, so I'm not offended if this offends you or anyone!

I hope this can clear up some things. As others have mentioned, looking at the crowd at a typical public event in the US is likely to only be about ~10% black attendees, which will make the crowd look white. Further, we have wealth stratified by race, where black folks are less likely to be spending on expensive stadium seats for a televised game.

Statistically, football viewership among black Americans is higher than among white Americans. It’s something like 75% of the population for the former, and 55% for the latter.

I would start by understanding the culture of black athleticism in the USA and how that has literally lead to social change, integration, and continues to drive progress forward.

Not an expert at race relations, can you provide some links? What limited I know, prominent African Americans (cough Obama cough) thought that this sports as a method of social change is actually counterproductive?

It also makes common sense. Are you telling me the system that allows social integration only if you prove yourself in the playground is actually an acceptable system in any level? Especially with a (for lack of better word) blood sport like football or boxing?

So I'm neither American nor a football fan, but here's a factoid which may reflect that your numbers are off for the audience being predominantly white: https://freakonomics.com/2006/10/05/black-and-white-tv

Sunday Night Football (historically) was the only overlap between the two lists

>Not an expert at race relations, can you provide some links?

You can start reading about Jackie Robinson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson).

I guess racism is the only way to explain anything nowadays.

I used racism to explain a game with clearly biased diversity numbers (most linebackers black, most quarterbacks white, most audience white especially college football). Not trying to explain why frogs are gay because of racism.

So what most linebarckers are black (aren't most players are black anyway?), most quarterbacks are white and most audience white? Why should they be "diverse" in color, what's the point?

The lack of diversity in the coaching ranks is the result of structural racism. The lack of black quarterbacks is a direct result both structural and often overt racism where black quarterbacks are considered to have less intelligence and leadership ability than white quarterbacks.

At the same time, black players are overrepresented in what are called 'skill positions' -- those requiring more speed and athleticism.

To ignore this is either to: 1.) Not really know football culture; or 2.) Be intentionally obtuse

Commentators like Bomani Jones speak often about these subjects, if you'd like to read up on it.

It sounds to me like people are being put in their positions where they are the most effective. Skewing any other way for the sake of having a "equal representation" is simply silly imo. We see the same thing in tech where we want everyone being represented regardless of skills and the business goals and just to have that social justice satisfaction for a brief time. I'm getting real tired of this rhetoric already..ironically it's parroted largely by non-minorities.

do hockey next...

Counter intuitively: get rid of all the protective gear, specifically the solid helmet.

Rugby doesn’t seem to have the problem NFL has here.

Rugby has had increasing concussion issues also as players have gotten bigger (and possibly play styles have shifted?). In fact, rugby may be worse, especially for younger players. https://www.florugby.com/articles/6745817-rugby-vs-football-...

Meh you have a short memory... it is just as shitty and dangerous as football. Or can be lets say.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/106203965/french...

Same issue in boxing: bare knuckle fighting leads to less concussions than boxing with gloves.

Indeed. There seem to be fairly obvious ways to make the sport safer but that's not popular; perhaps if the demographics of the affected matched the demographics of the audience there might be more empathy!

Are you suggesting it’s less racist to have less blacks people and more white people?

Asians have basically no representation in the NFL. In your opinion, should we limit blacks in the NFL to their population percentage so that it’s more fair, and give those spots to more whites and Asians?

Do Pacific Islanders count as Asians? IIRC There are a relatively high number of them in the NFL.

I guess in the same way that white South Africans immigrants to the US can be considered African Americans, and Russians can be considered Asians.

Otherwise no, Pacific Islanders are not Asian. They even have their own checkbox in ethnicity polls.

If you're going to say exploiting people to suffer violence with a racial bias is racism, will you at least mention that that perspective points out much more sexism? Any racial bias is smaller than the 100/0 sex difference in who gets hurt.

What? NFL players are currying their brains for millions and millions of dollars. Not for their fanbase.

What if they weren't making "millions and millions" of dollars, but instead "a million or two total in their entire career"? Would that change it for you?

Keep in mind, this career takes about 8 years to learn (high school, college), and you're only able to execute at a paying level for 2.5 years, on average before you can never play again for money.

[1] https://work.chron.com/long-average-career-nfl-player-12643....

[2] https://www.recordonline.com/zz/news/20180128/think-nfl-play...

[3] https://www.sportscasting.com/how-long-is-the-average-nfl-ca...

Still vastly more than most people make in that amount of time

I never suggested they're doing it for their fans. They're doing it for the money and fame, or rather the perception of the same, given that the average nfl player doesn't actually make that much over their very short career but pay back dearly with problems all through their life. Basketball players also mostly end up bankrupt after their careers, but at least their brain is intact?

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