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Comment by echelon | Hacker News Reader

Every time I mention this on Hacker News, I get downvoted by the neoliberal fascists that want to suppress the speech they feel comfortable with silencing.

Free speech is only free if we allow all of it.

Americans have thick skin. It's in our culture. We've accomplished so much in spite of internal disagreement and oppression: voting rights, women's rights, gay marriage (which still isn't enshrined in the constitution -- work to be done!)

Imagine if we froze back in the 50's because we didn't have free speech. Pick any point in the timeline and freeze the American experiment. It will lead to a worse outcome.

I can tolerate some idiots with racist hate flags, Westboro funeral protests, etc. Because the freedom we enjoy is worth so much more than their minor nuisance.

edit: Yep, predictably downvoted. Go move to another country that isn't America so you don't have to listen to people you disagree with.

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> Americans have thick skin. It's in our culture.

This really doesn't track historically. Lots of voices have been historically silenced by American majorities because of hurt feelings or "decency."

It's also worth noting that America hasn't been uniformly ahead of the curve in terms of granting rights to those that were originally denied. Probably the worst example is getting rid of slavery, which was far more bloody than in many other places. In some other areas we've been ahead of the curve, in some behind. But note that some of that also came from the courts in controversial ways. The first amendment has not correlated to a better track record at granting groups their rights.

> I get downvoted by the neoliberal fascists

You might get fewer downvotes if you followed the HN rules, particularly "be nice". Also, in polite conversation, preemptively calling your fellow conversation partners fascists is a good way to get off on the wrong foot.

While I agree with your main point re name calling, it's absolutely not true that you get fewer downvotes if you follow HN's written rules. There are also unwritten groupthink (for lack of a better phrase) rules for which you _will_ get downvoted for. I don't have many controversial opinions but sometimes they are outside the generally accepted "truths".

This comment broke the site guidelines badly and you've been doing that a lot lately, unfortunately. We need you to stop doing this. Please see my more detailed reply at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25994701.

I actually agree with your premise, but I don't want to listen to you when you use self contradictory phrases like 'neoliberal fascists'. I imagine I'm not alone. You're getting downvoted because you sound incoherent and unhinged.

To be fair, terminology now is really confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what is anti-fascist about antifa or that really has anything to do with their existence.

> what is anti-fascist about antifa

Antifa is an anarchist direct action movement that tries to deny Fascist groups the ability to organize by basically beating the crap out of them when they try to get together.

"Fascist" isn't a synonym for "politics I don't like".

Sure, that's the textbook definition. But when I see them beating up folks, I don't necessarily see any evidence the recipients are fascists at all. So what do you call a group of people that unilaterally decide other people are fascists and then beat them up without any kind of due process, all in order to keep them from being able to "get together" and raise their voice? Authoritarian?

Helpfully?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

> Free speech is only free if we allow all of it.

I am quite happy to see various platforms take on blocking commercial spam - this might be in their own interests (since they want to sell off the right to advertise rather than have people independently leverage their platform to spread advertising but I think it's fair to say that nearly no one wants completely unlimited speech.

I don't believe that the NYT should be required to print my novel into every sunday edition of their paper even if they do choose to print some letters to the editor - they have the right to choose what to print. A similar parallel was fax-vertising, where you send unsolicited faxes to random numbers in the hope that someone reads your flier and decides they want your services. Back in the day fax-vertising would result in a lot of paper waste since the fax would be instantly printed out, in the modern world people tend to screen incoming faxes, but it is still a problem... Your unlimited speech is causing someone to waste paper and ink to pay the cost of expressing your speech.

When it comes to digital information the cost goes way down and I agree that in this case the actions of social media platforms are pretty despicable but in all things we need to have balance.

(Also, please don't open up a statement by calling your detractors neoliberal facists - this isn't reddit)

> Go move to another country that isn't America so you don't have to listen to people you disagree with.

Wew lad.

Also do you actually know what a neoliberal is?

I won't downvote you, but American history of free speech has some really dark spots. Read up on Comstock Laws or Sedition Act of 1918 and their victims.

Just like everywhere else, words on paper do not defend themselves, even if that paper is the Constitution. Authoritarian people will try to sneak in limitations into laws, free minded people will have to defend the principle.

This is just a new iteration of a very old war.

I've seen the essence of this opinion posted by others without downvoting.

Have you considered the votes are less to do with the opinion than your choices in communicating it?

In my experience—unless your comment is particularly helpful—starting a comment with “I will be downvoted for this” is only fishing for more downvotes then you’d otherwise get. This holds true on most internet forums I’ve visited.

Wow, guess I live in and being booted from the USA without me even knowing it now... IMO living is all about compromises, that way we all benefit from it as a society. But clearly not by being ignorant.

Please also note that people from many countries participate here. I suspect they may also listen to people they disagree with.

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