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Comment by sebmellen | Hacker News Reader

Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange.

If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting.

For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM.

Ma looks the opposite here.

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Also, look at his hands while he's talking. Doesn't seem like the hand gestures of a person feeling safe and confident in the moment of filming.

Huh, that's on pseudoscience territory.

At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.

Compared to Jack Ma's usual public image (see below), a frumpy pullover and a dingy room does seem rather odd.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=jack+ma&iax=images&ia=images

Yes but he was comparing to how Bezos and Musk appear.

Everyone is not how they normally appear because of the pandemic, and Ma addresses the reason why he's just video taping himself in a room because of this. Stop armchair speculating.

The odd outbreak aside (and Shijiazhuang is nowhere near Hangzhou), lockdowns are long over in China, there's no need for Ma to cower in a basement.

That said, I actually agree with you that the "hurr durr CCP torture cell" comments are overblown. It's entirely plausible that he's keeping a low profile for a while, if likely in response to some rather heavy-handed advice.

My problem is the OP is trying to insinuate things based off pure speculation, cultural bias, and irrelevant details. He may as well have said that there was an excess of red pixels in the video and that means it must be reflections off of communist symbolism in the room.

So yes we are in agreement that the OP's comment is adds no substance to the conversation and is pure "hurr durr CCP torture cell" that just furthers the stereotypes of China.

No, we're not in agreement on that. It's clear that Ma's dress & appearance in the video was distinctly at odds with his own usual profile, no need for any stereotypes or comparisons to other people.

> distinctly at odds with his own usual profile

This is a picture from today.

https://x0.ifengimg.com/ucms/2021_04/C5A7B512BF72106A6497177...

Same event from 2019.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/09/10/world/10alibaba/m...

He upgraded from sweatpants to khakis. I think people are over reading the situation. All the usual factors that gets someone disappeared is not present with Ma's current faux pas.

Yes but he (OP) was specifically comparing to how Bezos and Musk appear and insinuating that someone from the Chinese culture must present themselves in the same way or there must be foul play.

Just to clarify, I'm not really in a position to analyze the meaning behind his current attire and choice of background relative to his past, so I'll take your word on your analysis of that.

It's about the status of people in the video and the general expectation of public of how they usually presented themselves. People of this caliber usually comes up with carefully craft image, along with good production. It's the same no matter where you live or born.

The Bezos and Gates example is just that, and example of famous people that we familiar with and that's it.

Chill man. Not everything is about race.

Your assertion doesn't even apply in Western culture, let alone generalization across cultures you probably know nothing about.

Most people would consider Elon to be eccentric, Paul Graham to not look like traditional VC, and these superficial aspects are frankly irrelevant. So why is it ok to use that to insinuate stereotypes and hand-wavy assertions of malfeasance.

Perhaps for you there is no consequence, but much like calling the coronavirus the "China virus", you're doing cultural damage by spreading negative stereotypes via fabricated or insinuated purely speculative assertions. The stereotype here is that China is associated with as some dystopian backwards society that has done no favors for its citizenry, which may or may not be true, but is definitely not defended by any objective evidence presented by the OP.

To flip the scenario, imagine if some random people from China commented about how the US elections seems like there was rampant fraud, without much supporting evidence. By lending credence to something without any concrete evidence you give it some air of legitimacy. When you do so by purely speculating on non-important things you've entered the realm of purely pushing an agenda with no substance.

> The stereotype here is that China is associated with as some dystopian backwards society that has done no favors for its citizenry

I think people are mostly just trying to figure out what is going on with one of the richest/most powerful people in the world. There's not a lot of evidence to go on, so any scrap is potentially relevant. In your view, what are the best theories for his behavior?

And this isn't just an academic or social exercise; Alibaba jumped billions due to this appearance.

OP is taking scraps and extrapolating completely out of proportion. I am simply pointing out his extrapolation is out of proportion. Just because there is a lack of info doesn't mean you should make up random things and give them credence.

Curious how so?

Assuming the standards of appearance for public figures are based on specific people from America of specific ethnic and cultural backgrounds.

I mean if I video conferenced with you right now you'd probably speculate I've been coopted by Communist powers because simply because my background isn't up to your standards (it'd be of a water heater and radon pipes since I'm in the basement).

Ok, but I didn't say that because he's Chinese, rather because he's a person of power and a multi-billionaire, and I was comparing him to other such people (not specifically Americans).

It may be unintentional, but you ultimately did end up comparing his appearance to the standard of two other people that happened not to be Chinese, but also using this as the premise for a theory of foul play. What if his appearance ends up having nothing to do with it? Then it ends up just being insulting, especially if culturally his appearance is considered normal.

Nothing to do with his appearance, but with his surroundings and things like his video quality. It's also just one observation of a number of very odd things — the oddest thing being that a multibillionaire has reappeared after 3 months of disappearance without making a mention of it! Especially after such widespread speculation, if there were nothing going on, you'd think he'd care to comment "hi everyone, I've just been on vacation," or something innocuous like that.

With all due respect, you are presumably also not the multibillionaire CEO of one of the world's largest Internet companies.

If I saw Zuck, Satya or Sundar do a video conference looking like they're chained to the radiator in somebody's basement, I'd also be kinda concerned. (At least for the latter two. Zuck, maybe not so much.)

With all due respect if we judged people by their appearances we'd have discredited Paul Graham long ago for eschewing the traditional VC outfit.

The OP's comments about the appearance of the video is completely irrelevant and merely serving to throw speculative shade. For what it's worth, something probably did happen but his choice of webcam + background probably has nothing to do with it, but rampant speculation and false information is how we lead to the capital riots.

While the idea of gulags and "re-education camps" pervade Western perceptions of Chinese life, the reality is that conformity and centralized government is probably more dull than you think.

What is up with the pen in his hand and his thumb movement? Any ideas?

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