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Comment by timkam | Hacker News Reader

I must say the Singularity Hub web presence looks snake-oily to me. Why do they call it a "university"? Why do they call some of the members "faculty"? Why do they claim Ray Kurzweil has "a thirty-year track record of accurate predictions"? (https://singularityhub.com/experts/)

Any idea why they brand it like this? Who is supposed to take this seriously?

I'm EU-based and here you're not allowed to claim that your organization is a university if it is not recognized by the state as such (roughly speaking).

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I don't know anything about the Singularity Hub, but this article is just a repost of a Creative Commons licensed article from The Conversation: https://theconversation.com/the-worlds-oldest-story-astronom...

Ideally this story should be changed to this URL which has further comments by the author attached to it. Also The Conversation is a legitimate Australian academic site.

Comments from the Conversation article also contain a link to download the paper from the author: https://www.dropbox.com/s/np0n4v72bdl37gr/sevensisters.pdf?d...

By adding an author profile and a list of other Singularity Hub articles by the author, they make it look like the author is part of the Singularity Hub community, but the two articles that he has written are both from The Conversation.

This is the correct link, but unfortunately The Conversation often features on HN only by proxy via reposts of its articles.

wow. they basically copy & pasted the conversation article... or the other way around?

The Conversation literally has a button you can click to help you copy & paste the article. And there's attribution at the end of the Singularity Hub repost. There's nothing shady going on here.

I don't disagree, but you have to understand that because "university" isn't a protected name in the US, it also doesn't carry the same status and thus calling the Singularity organization a university is less preposterous.

Eg you learn to run a team of hamburger flippers at the McDonald's University. Many SaaS startups have a tutorials page named $BRAND University. In that context, a bunch of atheistic reli-nuts calling their clubhouse a university isn't that far off.

Thank you for clarifying, then the main issue comes with global scale (a point that one of the other comments here makes).

You can pay them money to attend classes they hold (which you can find example Youtube videos of--basically 50min TED talks), and at the end of it you get a certificate. It was modeled after the International Space University, which in France, and shares a co-founder.

I may be swayed that this is more of a "summer workshop" and not as academically rigorous as I'd like, but otherwise I'm not sure why you claim it doesn't deserve the title "University."

In many countries outside the US the term University is protected in law for institutions meeting some very rigorous criteria, so clarifying on what basis it’s called a University on a very international forum like this is useful for those not aware and who might make assumptions about what is meant by University.

The ISU is an accredited University which offers formal Masters degree programs, while Singularity University is not accredited and does not offer formal graduate or undergraduate degree courses.

>but otherwise I'm not sure why you claim it doesn't deserve the title "University."

Just because they can use that title doesn't mean they necessarily should, especially an organization rooted in academia that wants to be taken seriously. Even if it is legitimate and well intentioned, spuriously using the term 'university' and having a disclaimer like 'Singularity University is not a degree granting institution' in fine print definitely doesn't send the right message. I don't think it's an issue of whether they deserve to use that term but it gives the illusion that they're in company with other dubious non-accredited 'universities'. It's just bad optics.

Diversion aside, the article is a publication by one Ray Norris, who works in the Astro physics department at CSIRO, Australia's Government funded science org, and also is a Professor for Western Sydney University.

I've met him and listened to his public lectures at Macquarie University. He has been researching Aboriginal Australian Astronomy for decades and is well published in the arena. He and his wife have traveled all over Oz, gathering stories from the Elders of tribes.

I've heard him talk about the Seven Sisters story from Aboriginal accounts, but one particular story stuck out:

Ray mentioned how one particular elder could individually name 50,000 stars, and he dared any Astrophysicist to mention 5,000.

I'd recommend that the baby not be thrown out with the bath water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Norris_(astrophysicist)

http://www.emudreaming.com/Further_reading.htm

Did that elder offer some proof that they had significantly better eyes than most humans? Because the generally accepted number of visible stars is ~5000 in each hemisphere.

https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-blogs/how-many-stars-n...

I have read that some indigenous Australians had/have ridiculously good vision, by western standards. (Brb googling :)

Edit: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-08/prince-harry-may-stru... (popsci but generally reliable journalism)

Thanks, my initial scepticism is weakened.

It might have started in good faith, but now there are local chapters at least in EU, where people basically advertise themselves.

So yeah it is snake oil now.

The only experience I had with the Singularity University is an exec at a client of mine who -- after studying there -- told everyone his company needed a moonshot. His idea of a moonshot was simply "triple profits by next year" by telling people they needed to believe it was possible.

So yeah, he probably did not grasp what he was taught, but then again, you'd expect a self-proclaimed university to teach its students better than that.

To me, the Singularity University's target audience seems to be execs who need to convince others they are capable of developing a vision.

I know nothing at all about this, so cannot comment on the Singularity University, but in the US, it’s actually fairly common to attach the word “university” to all sorts of training series. My old company’s HR added “university” to their regular internal training series (complete with a “certificate” that we would get after each mandatory class).

I took seminars throughout my career, and a number were dubbed “university” (Like Apple’s famous —and long-defunct— “Developer University” —DU. I still have the certificates they gave me).

Personally, I find it potentially misleading, but seldom actually nefarious. It does dilute the cachet of the word, though.

> Singularity Hub web presence looks snake-oily

That be as it may, I fail to see anything deceptive in the linked article. The widespread notion that the Pleiades have 7 stars while only 6 are visible is definitely interesting.

Not sure I buy the explanation though (that Pleione would have been visibly separable from Atlas 100.000 years ago, and that the memory of that time has lived on in myth). But they do put a question mark after the claim.

It's what we call a "cult". A light one, as far as cults go, but still a cult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University In America, university holds no special branding, and American companies aren't great about respecting EU branding law. See California Champagne and Kraft Parmesan cheese. I don't think anyone attending Singularity University thinks it is a real university; their paying audience generally already has a university degree.

Singularity University is basically an overpriced executive MBA program, mostly paid for by non Americans excited to visit Silicon Valley. For people with infinite money looking for a taste of Silicon Valley and wanting to invest in cutting edge stuff here, their actual educational materials are totally acceptable.

I used to work with their current law and blockchain lecturer.

> See California Champagne

You mean the labeling that the EU agrees (if reluctantly) to be legal?

https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/loophole-california-champagne...

I also live in the EU, but the EU did not invented universities, and hence whichever bureaucratic definition it made up, shouldn't be used as a measure for universities outside the EU.

Universities were invented in medieval Europe and, to my knowledge, they were always supported by ruling authorities, be them kings, emperors or popes, who granted them their legitimacy.

Of course a sovereign country can define (or refrain from defining) a university in any way they like, but the historical argument really doesn't help much there. The historical notion of a university is very much tied to ruling powers.

The earliest universities were in Asia and Africa,[1] evolving from madrasas founded by religious patrons, similar to how early European universities evolved from monastic schools.

1. https://www.britannica.com/topic/university

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