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Comment by antibuddy | Hacker News Reader

A vaccine that is tested for around 6 months. Actually it's multiple vaccines with two new approaches which are not tested at all for long-term side effects.

From that perspective it's not really desirable to get "people" vaccinated as quickly as possible.

PS.: Was the validation somehow 4 years? You can't cope with facts.

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Explain to me how it is preferable to get all the Covid mRNA from an infection instead of a tiny piece that codes for nothing that will kill you and primes your immune system. What long term side effect do you see from a tiny piece of foreign mRNA, something our bodies encounter continually throughout our lifetimes?

I am supposed to know what nobody does. Nobody knows the long-term side effects of either vaccines against COVID and that is exactly my point.

Btw: What was not tested at all was if this leads to sterile immunity. So vaccinated ppl could still be transmitting COVID.

>So vaccinated ppl could still be transmitting COVID.

What are you proposing as an alternative? Transmission to people without vaccination so everyone gets COVID and millions more die?

>What are you proposing as an alternative?

Testing the vaccine and the new approaches properly. The average age of COVID deaths is around 82 years (at least in Germany), so I'd say many of these people would have died in the next few months anyway.

Also COVID is not the only cause of death and act in panic might cause more deaths than not acting at all. With a lethality of around 0.4% and the average age of death, COVID is no reason to hurry a vaccine that might have abysmal side effects. You could maybe argue that the spanish flu was (at that time), but COVID is really several orders of magnitude less lethal and also not with as prevalent and severe side effects as the measles (especially among the young and otherwise healthy).

We learned nothing of the Pandemrix fiasco.

About "long-term side effects"[0]:

"For most people, Covid-19 is a brief and mild disease but some are left struggling with symptoms including lasting fatigue, persistent pain and breathlessness for months.

The condition known as "long Covid" is having a debilitating effect on people's lives, and stories of being left exhausted after even a short walk are now common.

So far, the focus has been on saving lives during the pandemic, but there is now a growing recognition that people are facing long-term consequences of a Covid infection.

Yet even basic questions - such as why people get long Covid or whether everyone will fully recover - are riddled with uncertainty."

0. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54296223

What's your point?

Think the point is you either roll the dice with COVID or roll the dice with a vaccine. We have evidence of long-term COVID effects while with any of the vaccines not enough time has passed.

You are always rolling the dice when you get a cold. The important part is how likely the side effects really are and this is proven for neither.

In addition to this, vaccine side effects can be way more severe than that especially for otherwise healthy people. Given the lethality is <0.1% for people under 60 and sterile immunity (with the vaccine) is neither proven nor targeted, there doesn't seem to be a hurry to get the vaccine really.

Why are you all over this thread fear mongering about sterilizing immunity?

The vaccine trials indeed did not collect data about it, but the starting assumption (based on the mechanism of action of the vaccines) is that they are likely to result in sterilizing immunity. They may not! But the lack of data doesn't mean we should expect there to not be sterilizing immunity.

You mean the vaccine against the virus that has already killed 300k people in the US? Its very clearly desirable to get all of the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions vaccinated as quickly as possible since they have such a high probability of dying of the virus. Even if we did just that we could cut the death rate way down.

Using a vaccine which is tested exclusively on young men (which is the normal procedure) on elderly first is yet another inconsistency in the "holy vaccine"-narrative.

The comment:

> vaccine which is tested exclusively on young men

is COMPLETELY wrong.

1. The trials have been performed on both men and women

2. Age groups <65 AND >= 65

3. Also included chronically ill

From Moderna:

> As of today, the COVE study includes more than 7,000 Americans over the age of 65. It also includes more than 5,000 Americans who are under the age of 65 but have high-risk chronic diseases that put them at increased risk of severe COVID-19, such as diabetes, severe obesity and cardiac disease. These medically high-risk groups represent 42% of the total participants in the Phase 3 COVE study.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...

You are only going to get those long term tests if you give the vaccines to people.

I want the vaccine now, but can't get it. Shoot me up with it and if I die from it, I will let you know.

If you don't want it, that's your business. But no one should be standing on the hose for the rest of us.

That's okay. We need guinea pigs. Let's just hope it's not the next Pandemrix (whatever you are getting).

I'm a little confused. The worst case scenario for Pandemrix is a tiny chance of developing narcolepsy. Literally a few tens of people for a country. Is that wrong?

It seems that would be a very acceptable risk compared to 1% of people dying and 5 years of lockdown...

The lockdown is not a consequence of COVID. The fact that (especially) young people were affected means you need to compare the lethality of these younger groups and that one is below 0.1% (under the age of 60 in Sweden).

Is it still worth the risk then for these groups?

Objectively YES. A 0.1% chance of dying is much worse than a 0.0001% chance of narcolepsy.

And that's without adding "Long Covid" damage or the lockdown or anything else.

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