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Comment by legitster | Hacker News Reader

Not to knock the wonderful developments that have happened in plant-based foods in the last decade, but this really makes me appreciate the egg all the more. Some of the egg alternatives seem to require a degree in chemical engineering to get right.

Between the many magical uses of the yolk and white (both separately and together), you appreciate how versatile a collection of fats and proteins it really is. And how user friendly it is. It even comes in it's own packaging!

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I made a vegan pavlova just the other week. Took chickpea juice straight out of a regular can of chickpeas and whipped it up with sugar. No adjustment necessary.

The amount of salt, sugar and other preservatives in that water is probably not good.

Try to cook your own chickpeas, it's super easy, fast if you know the tricks and a hell of a lot cheaper, and I am no vegan, just love them, you also generate less waste.

That and chickpeas in dry 20-50 unit bags are ridiculously cheap. Like the cost of 4-8 cans at the store and produce 50x more.

any tips on cooking them well? Do you use pressure cooker?

I have a hunch that we have so many simple egg-based recipes because they've gone through so much testing - perhaps in a hundred years we'll say the same thing of aquafaba.

Doesn't that say something about how eggs are easy to test compared to other things?

I think it says more about how much longer we've been using eggs, as well as how much more demand there is for alternatives today.

I was going to say that it's probably because people who had access to wheat would more likely have access to eggs, but it seems Chickpeas and Wheat were both first found around Turkey.

I just assume it is because we've had eggs longer than canned goods.

Also, even though aquafaba from freshly cooked chickpeas also works well, I'm guessing that, until recently, chickpeas weren't super common in the part of the world where the European pastry tradition developed.

I'm glad with all those development into egg-free alternatives. My wife is severely allergic to eggs, and this really opened the door to produce she couldn't never have eaten otherwise.

Unless she's allergic to the sulphur compounds, you may really enjoy Kala Namak. It's a traditional asian salt which contains sulfuric ingredients and it makes everything taste like eggs. (It's not heat stable tho.) With avocado you get something that tastes and feels like egg. A sulphur note is also very typical for non-vegan food, as animal protein decay releases these molecules at any stage. I do a modified version of the kinky vegan "Mett" (german, raw minced meat) based on rice cakes and tomato extract (don't judge it before you tried it) and the sulfuric hint really adds to it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_namak

Sorry, but did you mean products instead of produce? If you did mean produce, how does an egg allergy effect produce (which I understand as fruits and vegetables) being able to be eaten?

Sorry, language barrier. I wasn't aware produce meant fruits and vegetables.

I did mean products.

Agree, it will be so cool when we can have everything eggs offer and none of the cruelty.

There are plenty of cruelty free sources for eggs. Go with a reputable free range grower or if you live in the countryside or even suburbs, there are usually neighbors that sell their excess eggs.

I would strongly disagree that any commercial operation - regardless of its labeling - could be called cruelty free. That leaves neighbors with backyard hens, which will never be enough cover any significant portion of egg consumption.

I mean, if you want cruelty free eggs you can just raise chickens.

That’s something you can start working on now to meet 100% of your egg needs.

> I mean, if you want cruelty free eggs you can just raise chickens.

Raising hens still means that someone somewhere is hatching eggs and throwing out the rooster chicks, probably grinding them into chicken meal.

The usual definition of "cruelty free" does not necessarily mean nothing is killed. Many consider humane methods of killing (culling) to be cruelty free.

I don't. And "just raise your own" is obviously not a viable option for the overwhelming majority of people.

Not sure if the other tenants in my downtown condo high rise will appreciate that. I'll probably get a visit from the Supe

Unless you're raising the hens as well it can still be cruel.

Sometimes, that hen turns out to be a rooster. Fertilized eggs are not as desirable, and that damn rooster crows too often

But we aren't talking about covering a significant portion of egg consumption. Only the portion of egg consumption from people who don't want cruelty free eggs.

There aren't enough pasture chickens (not "free range" which is a lie) for everyone to be fed from them.

Pasture-raised isn't as cruelty-free as one might like. Big free range chicken farms have eagle problems: https://www.audubon.org/magazine/fall-2016/an-organic-chicke...

If you're a chicken, do you want to live forever in a cage, or be eaten alive by a bigger bird? Neither of those choices sound great to me.

Being eventually eaten by a predator is fairly probable part of any birds life.

So you prefer to deny this chicken the chance to live any life because you can't make it perfect?

You want to distance yourself so far from cruelty that you don't want to let anything live until you are able to provide better conditions than any mythical god could? ;-)

Around me, I see plenty of free-roaming chickens. The big problem is raccoons, you just need to make sure the chickens are put up at night and they usually make it.

This level of purity regarding cruelty avoidance seems to have logical gaps, e.g. what about the suffering of eagles? (Or other predators)

As someone who raises chickens, with no cruelty, I'm surprised to hear it's not already an option.

Maybe you should look for another source.

Unfortunately, not everybody can afford to raise their own chickens.

E.g. IIRC, raising of any chicken/duck/goose/pigeon on land that is not zoned for agriculture has been outlawed in Hong Kong, due to concerns about spreading diseases, especially avian flu.

Plus, most people live in tiny homes with no garden and maybe even no balcony.

I don't know what the answer is - is it less cruel to let a chicken lay eggs for a long time yet remain alive, or raise a calf into a cow, then kill it for its meat?

Is it any less cruel for the small fish to eat the plant, and then the medium fish eat the little fish?

Most definitely. I suppose, being able to achieve the results that eggs afford us, but by starting out with arguably simpler ingredients, we'll become better cooks.

As our understanding of fats, sugars and proteins improves, we'll be able to control them even better. Cooking is chemistry, after all :).

I can attest to that. I became mostly vegan, because I had a new friend who was vegan and I started to cook with them in mind. It's fun and challenging, invites for experimentation. Climate and health considerations did the rest. Cooking with meat and cheese is like cheating. You have to be an idiot for it to become a boring dish.

You just use 3 tablespoons of the water from canned chickpeas. I’ve been doing it for years now. It’s not that difficult.

Signed,

Egg Anaphylaxis

It's also nice that oranges and bananas come in thick and handy packaging.

The trick to the banana is that it's easier to open it from the bottom.

It's harder to get unwrapping an orange right.

I got a addicted to eating oranges with the peel. Obviously you need to get those not treated, "bio", or peel labeled for consumption. Some don't like the texture, but the automatic intensity and bitter-sweet contrast is so fucking awesome.

Try eating a whole chilled orange in the warm shower like an animal. Just make sure your bite gets pulp and peel both.

How fascinating. I would really have to let go of a lot of preconceptions to try that.

Honestly I haven't done that since I was a kid - I would "invent" food. My peanut butter and jelly variants included PB& banana, PB&raisins, PB&pickles - nope :( PB&grapes - would roll on the floor, etc...

If you haven't had watermelon rind juice, you totally should.

It's impossible to get unwrapping an orange right. I've tried for a lifetime.

Skin it then pull the pieces apart. Easier to figure out with a tangerine.

This is one of the most "draw a circle, then draw the rest of the owl" comments I've read. :) Skinning it is the tough part.

Sorry. Not trying to be unhelpful. I guess for that the tricks actually breaking the skin for the first time. Then kind of exploiting the tear from there. Sometimes I can use the pith (white flesh) to help separate the skin. Maybe it’s an angle thing? Having some nails or the edge of a butter knife seems to help too.

You can also just rip them in half. Then run your finger down the exposed sides between flesh/skin. Or bend the skin back from the meat.

Yeah it’s tough.

I think tangerines have thinner skin, maybe that helps?

For me tangerines usually have more space ie less connection between skin and meat. Might help as a trainer.

what's annoying is that some oranges... boom - they come apart perfectly into nice clean orange wedges. Then the next orange from the same bag will either have a bunch of peel left, or shred into pieces of mush.

The egg also seems like a good target for biomanufacturing. It's a liquid (essentially), and mostly composed of just five proteins and lecithin.

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