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Comment by rhodozelia | Hacker News Reader

A similar requirement has been enacted in Canada and what has happened is that Canadians with covid can't return home to Canada and are stuck abroad. It really gives some teeth to the "do not travel" recommendation - if you get covid abroad you can't come home until you test negative. If you get covid at home and then go abroad you can't come home until you test negative. I think people who previously would have travelled and just risked it will be a lot more careful now since they can't get home if they are sick with covid. Instead of dozens of flights per day entering canada with covid cases we now have zero [1].

[1] http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19...

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Small correction: you can't board a flight to Canada. You're always welcome at a land border without a test report in hand. In which case you'll be required to spend 14 days in government quarantine.

You spend the 14 days in quarantine either way - land or air. And it's not 'government quarantine' for most people - it's just a hotel room, airbnb or wherever your approved plan says you're going to quarantine.

"As has been the case for months, all travellers will have their quarantine plans reviewed by a government official and, if not suitable, will be required to quarantine in a federal quarantine facility."[1]

Canadian citizens and permanent residents always have a right to enter. Presumably if you come to a land border without a negative test, you won't be trusted to self-quarantine properly and will be whisked off into a federal facility.

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2020/12/pre-d...

I think it's highly dependent. I came to Canada a few months back, completed the Federal and Provincial quarantine plans. All I got at immigration was a "be careful" and 2 calls from the province asking if everything was ok.

I've heard that that is generally the case. I was merely pointing out that if you show up at a border crossing without a negative test despite it being required, you likely won't be trusted to "be careful".

I'm totally ok with covid19 positive Canadians being stuck an unable to return home until they test negative. That's fair.

But people are getting stuck because they can't get results back in the 72 hour window. That's really not cool.

>I'm totally ok with covid19 positive Canadians being stuck an unable to return home until they test negative.

I am not; your home country should never deny you entry. You're telling a citizen he is not welcome in his own country, is that how you want to treat your citizens?

Quarantine is warranted but denying entry has a weird taste to me

It's an imperfect solution. But thousands of people have left to the beach in Mexico, Florida, etc. We aren't talking of people that got surprised by COVID in March, we are talking of people that bought a plane ticket in the middle of the pandemic, traveled abroad for vacation, and are now inconvenienced by the fact they need to get tested to come back.

Not everyone is traveling to the beach on vacation. There are numerous valid, serious reasons people need to travel.

Assuming that every Canadian outside of the country was on vacation is simply wrong.

I'm also in the same situation with my home country. I was born there, has the country passport, don't mind 2 week quarantine, commercial airlines have expressed interest but they are simply not allowed. Only a pitiful amount of repatriation flights are done.

I can't believe it's harder to go back to my home country than to get a visa to the US. I'm lucky I can stay long-ish term in the US but many many others are screwed.

I understand the country is underequipped to deal with a lot of people coming back and it's better to protect many more people inside but I do feel forgotten sometimes. What's the point of having the citizenship then if I can't even come home?

I’m assuming this is Vietnam as I have friends going through the same issue. Citizens of Vietnam and they are on a 6-9 month waiting list for a repatriation flight with the gov’t basically saying “if you can stay where you are you can’t come here”.

They can’t even even pay for a commercial flights and quarantine like other countries.

And because Lunar New Year celebrations are coming up, repatriations flights have been cancelled until after as they are concerned with all the travel within the country.

There's a big problem of Vietnamese who are stranded and jobless in Japan -- they lost their (mostly travel-related) jobs, cannot pay tuition, and cannot return home:

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210103/p2a/00m/0na/00...

I guess the situation with Vietnam is more unique that I thought.

This is an unrelated rant since the absurdity of the situation got to me. If you can hear the rumors about the reasons why there are fewer repatriation flights in January though, it definitely takes the cake.

How do you ensure safe travel for a covid positive person?

I am terrified of the possibility of this being retained after the pandemic and expanded to cover other maladies. There already is a concept called medical inadmissibility, but it only applies to foreign nationals. It really concerns me that we are not applying it to Canadians as well.

There are labs that guarantee < 72-hour turnaround times for travel. It costs extra but hey, that's life. This pandemic has been around for a year now so if it was that important to travel, it's worth paying extra for the test.

In Nevada it takes 5 days. Canadians are getting stuck there.

In Central America - could vary a lot by country.

> In Nevada it takes 5 days.

You're telling me there are no private labs that'll do it quicker? We have plenty in the Bay Area. Sounds like a market failure.

Not every place in the world is going to have PCR tests with results in a 72 hour window. There are going to be lots of Canadians falling through the cracks.

72 hour? In Florida you only pay out-of-pocket if you get the 1 hour test...

The 30 minute tests are antigen tests. The 72 hour tests are PCR tests. Antigen tests can basically only detect the virus if you're currently contagious. PCR tests can detect the virus before and after you're contagious. Airlines typically require the 72 hour PCR tests.

Here (Sydney Australia) PCR tests are mostly getting results within 24 hours, often as low as 14 hours.

72 hours is a system problem, not a fundamental timeframe for the test.

"But people are getting stuck because they can't get results back in the 72 hour window. That's really not cool."

That's their problem. Should have thought of that before going on vacation, etc.

Because they had a magic 8 ball to predict this outcome?

Given 98% of cases are internal spread, I just don't think it's warranted.

I don't think you need an 8 ball to predict that you shouldn't travel during this global pandemic -- especially in the past 6 months when it's all hit the fan.

Tough luck to those who get stranded, I say.

Not everybody outside the country is on vacation. How about a little empathy for your fellow countrymen.

Totally agree! My comment was intended to those travelling for recreational purposes.

You can pick up new variants abroad though. That’s better discouraged.

Now they are in countries in the Caribbean that have managed the virus relatively well and are overloading their public health system because they urgently need tests. Canada is just creating a problem for poorer countries while gaining very little - there's barely any community spread. If a Canadian returns home from the Carribean, on average both countries will have less covid.

Governments has been telling people for months not to go on vacation, that is correct, they should have thought of that before leaving.

They also gave 2 weeks notice so if you went somewhere and didn't think you could get a COVID test, there was still time to make it back home before the ban started.

Not everybody outside the country is on vacation. There are plenty of valid reasons to travel.

If only these people would suffer that would be alright - it was their mistake. But rich countries should not make poorer countries pay for the bad decisions of their own citizens. Policy needs to be guided by data, not emotions.

Keep in mind individuals can test positive for months after being infected but are not at risk for spreading the virus. It really should be a negative test or 14+ days after a positive test.

That sounds inconvenient. I’ve been ordered to stay at home off and on for almost a year, and it’s been inconvenient too.

So because you suffered an inconvenience in the comfort of your own home it makes it ok to strand Canadians overseas?

That's mature.

my friend's father passed away from covid three weeks after contracting it at a curling tournament which they obviously shouldn't have held, even in a small town in the middle of nowhere. he was 65 years old and had just retired. being dead is also not cool.

I think I can be upset at both.

Only 2% of cases are coming from outside of the country, so this seems mostly like a political thing than actually being useful. There's a lot of lower hanging fruit to get a 2% reduction. This seems too heavy handed in places where it's not currently possible to do a 72 hour test.

At the very least give some options to those can't meet the requirement. These people have to quarantine two weeks after returning anyway - I just don't see the logic behind this move.

> These people have to quarantine two weeks after returning anyway - I just don't see the logic behind this move.

Well, presumably a lot of the people taking foreign holidays are covid sceptics. So expecting 100% compliance with all quarantine rules would be pretty naive.

The authorities follow up and the fines can be huge, even including potential jail time.

I mean 100%, no, but enough to move the needle on the number of infections? I doubt it.

totally ok with letting them get stuck abroad. It's weird that everyone is freaking out about people travelling when the airports remain open and the guidance is totally about what ppl do inside the country. If you must keep the airport open(IMO should close them), let people leave and don't let them come back. If they leave, it's their problem (and unfortunately, some other country's). Stay at home.

For non-essential travel, I can 100% agree with you.

Not all travel is non-essential though (to a varying degree based on your belief of what "essential" encompasses).

There are risks to traveling internationally, especially during a global pandemic. Getting stranded at your destination happens to be one of them.

I know a woman who traveled from the US to Trinidad last February to care for her mother. She is still stuck there today. Fortunately, she has internet and an understanding employer.

You're in an incredibly privileged position to be in to say such a thing.

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